Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!news.albasani.net!news.stack.nl!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed1a.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail
Return-Path: <ethan@stoneleaf.us>
X-Original-To: python-list@python.org
Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org
X-Spam-Status: OK 0.006
X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.99; '*S*': 0.00; 'skip:l 60': 0.07; 'skip:p 60': 0.07; 'from:addr:ethan': 0.09; 'from:addr:stoneleaf.us': 0.09; 'from:name:ethan furman': 0.09; 'message-id:@stoneleaf.us': 0.09; 'pgp': 0.09; 'skip:o 60': 0.09; '~ethan~': 0.09; '(gnu/linux)': 0.16; '-----begin': 0.16; '-----end': 0.16; 'gnupg': 0.16; 'hash:': 0.16; 'incorrect': 0.16; 'sha1': 0.16; 'skip:/ 60': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'message-----': 0.19; '>>>': 0.22; 'programming': 0.22; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.23; '(such': 0.24; "aren't": 0.24; 'skip:n 60': 0.24; 'signed': 0.27; 'header :In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'point': 0.28; 'appear': 0.29; 'correct': 0.29; 'errors': 0.30; '>>>>': 0.31; "d'aprano": 0.31; 'disabled': 0.31; 'skip:i 60': 0.31; 'steven': 0.31; 'skip:d 20': 0.34; 'but': 0.35; 'version:': 0.36; 'charset:us-ascii': 0.36; 'easily': 0.37; 'expected': 0.38; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'pm,': 0.38; 'does': 0.39; 'use.': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'no.': 0.61; 'received:173': 0.61; 'techniques': 0.66; 'believe': 0.68; 'as:': 0.81; 'defensive': 0.84; 'end-user': 0.84; 'ethan': 0.84; 'furman': 0.84; 'unknowingly': 0.84; 'technique': 0.93
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 19:25:05 -0800
From: Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: python-list@python.org
Subject: Re: I love assert
References: <96c138e4-ab95-4e5f-a0c8-e696b5a926bb@googlegroups.com> <cf68f3b4-3312-4dda-a224-8f30f7b31b55@googlegroups.com> <87a93wqeq3.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <mailman.15744.1415829173.18130.python-list@python.org> <5465e887$0$12976$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <mailman.15827.1415989114.18130.python-list@python.org> <5466c13d$0$13009$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <mailman.15842.1416024588.18130.python-list@python.org> <546958ca$0$12976$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
In-Reply-To: <546958ca$0$12976$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language <python-list.python.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/>
List-Post: <mailto:python-list@python.org>
List-Help: <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=subscribe>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Message-ID: <mailman.15945.1416194716.18130.python-list@python.org>
Lines: 41
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6
X-Trace: 1416194716 news.xs4all.nl 2959 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:55610
X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl
Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:80959

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 11/16/2014 06:09 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Ethan Furman wrote:
>> On 11/14/2014 06:58 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>> Ethan Furman wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> My point being:  a safety net that is so easily disabled does not count (IMHO) as a backup.
>>> 
>>> Assertions are not a backup or a safety net. [...]
>> 
>> Would you be happier if I phrased that as: Defensive programming techniques that can be unknowingly disabled by
>> the end-user aren't very helpful?
> 
> No.
> 
> You appear to be labouring under the misapprehension that assertion-based techniques (such as design by contract)
> are a technique for guarding against expected errors in (say) data.

I believe we are in violent agreement here.  My hissy-fit is not on the correct use of asserts, but their incorrect use.

- --
~Ethan~
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
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=tM/a
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----