Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!news.mixmin.net!feeds.phibee-telecom.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed1a.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.000 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'example:': 0.03; 'cpython': 0.05; 'correct.': 0.07; 'debug': 0.07; 'from:addr:ethan': 0.09; 'from:addr:stoneleaf.us': 0.09; 'from:name:ethan furman': 0.09; 'handful': 0.09; 'message- id:@stoneleaf.us': 0.09; 'pgp': 0.09; 'python:': 0.09; 'skip:g 60': 0.09; 'skip:t 60': 0.09; '~ethan~': 0.09; 'python': 0.11; 'language.': 0.14; '(gnu/linux)': 0.16; '-----begin': 0.16; '----- end': 0.16; './python': 0.16; 'agree.': 0.16; 'code?': 0.16; 'configuring,': 0.16; 'gnupg': 0.16; 'hash:': 0.16; 'sha1': 0.16; 'skip:/ 60': 0.16; 'skip:d 60': 0.16; 'skip:j 60': 0.16; 'skip:q 60': 0.16; 'skip:v 60': 0.16; 'language': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'message-----': 0.19; 'normally': 0.19; 'skip:a 60': 0.19; 'programming': 0.22; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.23; 'specify': 0.24; 'signed': 0.27; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'point': 0.28; 'on,': 0.29; 'am,': 0.29; 'mode': 0.30; 'primarily': 0.30; '(which': 0.31; 'disabled': 0.31; 'skip:i 60': 0.31; 'languages': 0.32; 'option': 0.32; 'run': 0.32; 'worked': 0.33; 'running': 0.33; 'but': 0.35; 'add': 0.35; 'really': 0.36; 'false': 0.36; 'in.': 0.36; 'version:': 0.36; 'charset:us-ascii': 0.36; 'turn': 0.37; 'easily': 0.37; 'performance': 0.37; 'checks': 0.38; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'skip:- 10': 0.38; 'does': 0.39; 'itself': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'improved': 0.60; 'new': 0.61; 'received:173': 0.61; 'making': 0.63; 'great': 0.65; 'production': 0.68; 'optimized': 0.68; 'unusual': 0.74; 'ethan': 0.84; 'furman': 0.84; 'lean': 0.84; 'remembering': 0.84 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 12:41:09 -0800 From: Ethan Furman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: python-list@python.org Subject: Re: I love assert References: <96c138e4-ab95-4e5f-a0c8-e696b5a926bb@googlegroups.com> <87a93wqeq3.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <5465e887$0$12976$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <87ppcpmw9i.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> In-Reply-To: <87ppcpmw9i.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 49 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1415997675 news.xs4all.nl 2905 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:53374 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:80781 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 11/14/2014 11:12 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > Ethan Furman wrote: > >> My point being: a safety net that is so easily disabled does not count (IMHO) as a backup. > > Correct. You never lean on assertions. They are primarily formal comments. On this point we can agree. :) >> This is one my very few complaints about Python: running it normally is the same as running with DEBUG turned >> on, so the unusual case is remembering to run with asserts turned /off/. > > I don't remember ever having optimized them out in any programming language. Has that really improved the > performance of your code? In the handful of languages I have worked with so far, it's the other way 'round: you un-optimize debug mode in. CPython itself is a good example: when configuring, you must add --with-pydebug in order to get all the extra checks added (which is great when adding new features), but that option isn't used when making production CPythons; yet Python the language is just the opposite: debug mode is on /by default/, and to turn it off you have to specify -O: $ ./python -c "print(__debug__)" True $ ./python -O -c "print(__debug__)" False - -- ~Ethan~ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJUZmjlAAoJENZ7D1rrH75N3wMP/j9AowuuEvW9khTFX512QUHn VGwEqkIu4FDFRA8T+qzwqhL7st5GGsnXaPvaWCLmPGbtt1qrVxJ1M6LLkuSWI8Fj /hGe5rcEPP88/tMA5zy/pmg6jDgl96hojCnDmmS6meIQijVRpxMUGQ/4+N1oKI5d JYKOlhFStk0N5O6gyZ3Yc6UDY+I9kLVPZsIgH0bXx5IkvwQUi1aNboADehDgSbM5 XDCuZvfNsauKyJZL52NkKu6qLSY/CHDx4kaWdP/i75gZPeVJirjEUkcLYSK6iE19 DpkyeR5wetH1yppH27yyfZPCKHnaYD8O/rykRrQLaIYefKb7XhxGWXa4C17w+AQP 3+hjONiPBsXe2FZZNTskKufI88oXbFwTyI3GseeWTIbS+V9TIwGTjZA+V9jc6EvL T6T9PRGwOzfPolcLZ43x3ea8uCzLhxe0BILEfdmv6XPoPl9sJ5wHhbxg0oblo8GL GNkfOFw0ncxplyobU0RXhvsKCUg6EpAukWgIcX5IhHfnesoS1BpSMtZubAbY4GVI AHzL34KpYhOIDo3Ws26dCtHz5ocJSnDlHv2lxv+iEEZV+4lShFEreqfCLK0hcJTP QMFoI401Dy3bLd3wJX9mYQA+nMGhNtRK+4uYwGSbAinOGDKVuqrmNM7wCaF9lr/I aC+wno9PzNxkDNy2nUpY =gJhZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----