Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!feeds.phibee-telecom.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed3a.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.069 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.86; '*S*': 0.00; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'level,': 0.07; 'method.': 0.07; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.11; 'creates': 0.14; '11:09': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'sat,': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; 'cc:2**0': 0.24; 'shown': 0.26; 'least': 0.26; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'am,': 0.29; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; 'code': 0.31; "d'aprano": 0.31; 'steven': 0.31; "i'd": 0.34; 'problem': 0.35; 'basic': 0.35; 'definition': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'really': 0.36; 'done,': 0.36; 'being': 0.38; 'somebody': 0.38; 'that,': 0.38; 'explain': 0.39; 'extremely': 0.39; 'how': 0.40; 'solve': 0.60; 'most': 0.60; 'effective': 0.61; 'providing': 0.61; 'situation': 0.65; 'answer.': 0.68; 'hints': 0.68; 'fairness': 0.84; 'learn.': 0.84; 'invites': 0.91; 'to:none': 0.92 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc :content-type; bh=DVaOcIdwmXumDa2QklQmp2hBKRiBSzpZAV9/Un7G4kQ=; b=tPrPLrw8wCDSeRKezhTZ4HonUASLzBsgJybqOXJNJV51KU9sfV9abT5hqJ63yxtYeu GALVERcEWpeaab9cki1uvKirC2F8vuNvoikTYyJohhukVGI0QnZsjSJDjml7XiitrSU7 bqiqSCukMCppKaFwYTfFRzUiYzpJWWjtX6MIrdg4YljJJUx7QSHCcHH0KAzQhYcQ3iTd 9SeOa9EUvQqpvMbCVwbrK8PVBH/FHTRAjvl2ldv3M8Amm3YpASiEbrJBgMKT88zyN+aT jJHn/AQ+GO5MpTZmEn0sJ0UnI2Cz8XTVwamYJUs2iJS2F4TRKIyhWhOYV7a42DVM/0+A TYJg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.42.203.134 with SMTP id fi6mr17271868icb.36.1412389454283; Fri, 03 Oct 2014 19:24:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <542f48e7$0$13014$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> References: <3c9504c9-6906-4358-b14c-5764bba70a65@googlegroups.com> <78au2a12nlq6nipske1a327p14dvgvakug@4ax.com> <542f48e7$0$13014$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2014 12:24:14 +1000 Subject: Re: Python Basics From: Chris Angelico Cc: "python-list@python.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 16 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1412389462 news.xs4all.nl 2907 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:54186 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:78678 On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > In fairness to Seymour, at this extremely basic level, it's really hard to > explain to somebody how to solve a problem without giving them the answer. > > While I don't condone mindless parroting of work that others have done, > remember that for tens of thousands of years, being shown how to do > something, then imitating that, has been the most effective way for people > to learn. Dropping hints is typically the least effective learning method. Maybe. I'd still like to see the student's existing code before just giving the answer. Providing code in response to the copy/pasted problem definition invites the answer to be copy/pasted, which creates the situation I described. ChrisA