Path: csiph.com!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!nntp.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Chris Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.lang.python,comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,alt.comp.os.windows-10 Subject: Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2026 19:06:31 -0000 (UTC) Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 61 Message-ID: <117pmbn$f3fo$1@dont-email.me> References: <117b5u0$1q77$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> <117b9uu$3glj7$1@dont-email.me> <117c8t3$ifv$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> <117cmbk$1e7a$3@dont-email.me> <117fmvs$27up$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> <117fpti$18lf$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> <117hhrg$1jqn$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> <117hplp$oha$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> <117ndpv$3m9jr$1@dont-email.me> <117p2g1$773b$1@dont-email.me> <117pamf$a6ji$3@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2026 19:06:31 +0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; logging-data="495096"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19Odh+u40G7lbzJctjc5OmDdiEHJY97V0c="; posting-host="c655b277cc607a067d77324808198cdb" User-Agent: NewsTap/5.6.3 (iPhone/iPod Touch) Cancel-Lock: sha1:2154jhmjwzCNVg4r31QBz00p8Fk= sha1:H3Pt5n1DrSPZO6iY3oSwHq+0etA= sha256:fO/spCUO+NzEDIBcbhtiPlRwfFpl0yGwulykOdrpnLk= sha1:MIHYq1gauunFOPazWpaa1vXN2IM= sha256:BRXebm1DINagiTo5oJ1WstmN4qmPJek5guDYMRtveIc= Xref: csiph.com misc.phone.mobile.iphone:202201 comp.lang.python:198004 comp.mobile.android:155797 alt.internet.wireless:19039 alt.comp.os.windows-10:195680 Lane W wrote: > Chris wrote: >> Jon Ribbens wrote: >>> On 2026-09-07, Chris wrote: >>>> Jon Ribbens wrote: >>>>> To me it's fairly intuitive that if someone has taken the unusual step >>>>> of explicitly marking their network as "hidden", then its location >>>>> should not be included in these databases - especially given the fact >>>>> that the "_nomap" SSID method doesn't work for "hidden" networks. >>>> >>>> I guess the challenge here is how can they know not to add the MAC >>>> address if the SSID with the "_nomap" request invisible. >>> >>> That's the core of the issue - I would guess that Android devices are >>> only uploading BSSIDs to the Google database when they see that Access >>> Point broadcast an SSID, and that SSID doesn't end with "_nomap". >>> >>> iPhones on the other hand, I would guess are uploading BSSIDs to the >>> Apple database as soon as they see that Access Point broadcasting >>> anything, regardless of whether they have seen an SSID from it. >>> >>> If it works the way I am suggesting, then it means that Google's >>> database would automatically exclude "hidden" networks, and Apple's >>> wouldn't - and not only that, Apple would have no way of immediately >>> excluding them. They would need to issue updated iPhone software, >>> and then wait until almost all iPhones in the world that were still >>> in use were using the new software. >>> >>>>>> Related: What did Arlen (aka Maria) achieve? That Apple agreed to >>>>>> remove all hidden and _nomap entries, or that they removed only his >>>>>> entry? >>>>> >>>>> My impression is that as a result of Maria's communications with them, >>>>> Apple updated their documentation to note that "hidden" networks are >>>>> still listed in their database, and removed Maria's own BSSID(s) from >>>>> the database. >>>> >>>> That's purely a correlation. It could be a coincidence. And is there >>>> any evidence that the documentation did change? We only have his say so. >>> >>> We can't prove what prompted Apple to change their documentation, but >>> we certainly can prove that it did indeed change, using archive.org. >>> In December 2025 the page did not mention hidden networks, and today >>> it does. >>> >>> https://web.archive.org/web/20251221213139/https://support.apple.com/en-ie/102515 >>> https://support.apple.com/en-ie/102515 >> >> I agree. And I did the same. The fact that Arlen couldn't very easily >> evidence his assertion, despite my challenge above, speaks volumes. >> > Why do you call him/her Arlen if his/her preferred name is Maria? Are > you from the 70s? Because he - and it is a he - used to very regularly change his nym. For a long period the nyms were always a variation on Arlen, so it stuck. This year he had an epiphany and realised that nymshifting was unnecessary for more than a year. Weird, I know, but that's where we are with him. It is unknown why he chose to change gender this year where all previous names were male.