Path: csiph.com!news.nrbbs.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!not-for-mail From: Maria Sophia Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.lang.python,comp.mobile.android,alt.internet.wireless,alt.comp.os.windows-10 Subject: Re: Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2026 08:07:57 +0300 Organization: BWH Usenet Archive (https://usenet.blueworldhosting.com) Message-ID: <117o57d$1mti$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> References: <117b5u0$1q77$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> <117fif2$12j9f$2@dont-email.me> <117fqcm$2v6k$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> <117kc2b$2k45e$1@dont-email.me> Reply-To: pusvul@getTjewytR4so+mqe2.invalid Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2026 05:07:58 -0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com; logging-data="56242"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blueworldhosting.com"; posting-host="1fd271f0d15c3c259ccddfb209ac4694"; posting-account="a24474141b7b153dd56a8f6e0f30f8b5"; User-Agent: Mojibake 1p3 Cancel-Lock: sha1:ZskKjFKSy2QA8pzKzAR1AS5n8YE= sha256:N7c/TlK9xDH1cmx0l5F6ZEIpvFGQx65QGlz7qYvpPZ0= sha1:4mKnTYTq5idrBjVF1QM1H6CE1Jc= sha256:A86O0ClFBYxAANHs9QdcSiilTF6Yx/at9jdCRuricvc= Content-Language: en-GB Xref: csiph.com misc.phone.mobile.iphone:202160 comp.lang.python:197989 comp.mobile.android:155745 alt.internet.wireless:19015 alt.comp.os.windows-10:195644 R.Wieser wrote: >> I don't remember whether you addressed this ... how does someone >> who hasn't visited your address (i.e they already know where you live) >> discover what the BSSID of your router is? > > What you mention there has been explained to him in the thread here > > [Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID] > <10h1qmr$2alo$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> First, let's address Andy's point because Andy didn't read the paper, so Andy thinks it's about individuals, and not about the masses. *Surveilling the Masses with Wi-Fi-Based Positioning Systems* Let's simply apply Flock license-plate readers to that paper by way of an analogy, but we have to modify the protections, which, let's be clear, is the entire point of that paper. A. Flock has protection B. Google has protection C. Apple has no protection With that in mind, let's answer Andy's question using a Flock database. Does a FLOCK camera need to know who the driver of the vehicle is? Yes? or No? What matters is the vehicle is in that spot, at that time, right? Worse, what matters is ANYONE in the world can run the python script. So anyone in the world knows all vehicle's locations at that time, right? Oh, it gets worse. Not only do they know all vehicle's location, but they get the nearest 400 vehicles every time they query just one vehicle. Google doesn't do that. Only Apple does that. But wait, it gets worse. I wrote the Python code that gets the farthest away BSSID, and then gets the next 400 nearest vehicles. And the next. And the next, And the next. Just like the researchers said, I could collect the location of every single vehicle in the world, which is why it's *mass* surveillance. *Surveilling the Masses with Wi-Fi-Based Positioning Systems* Andy... it's not "individual" surveillance in that title. It's "mass" surveillance. Big difference. Now back to Rudy's offer of providing the message ID. 1. https://olduse.net/ 2. https://article.olduse.net 3. Drat. Message-ID: <10h1qmr$2alo$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> NOT FOUND Let's try https://usenetarchives.com/ Drat. Failed. Let's try https://www.ardent-tool.com/other/Links.html https://csiph.com/search Bingo! https://csiph.com/group/alt.comp.os.windows-10/a/10h1qmr%242alo%241@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com All my tutorials use freeware so that EVERYONE can use them, but I wrote this tutorial before I found out about this Apple WPS query: Hence, this tutorial is only useful if you want to control the query of Apple's highly insecure WPS database, which has no privacy controls. For example, you can query thousands of BSSID's in a single command. I'm not promoting that action, but I'm making the point it can be done. See also: From: Marian Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,alt.internet.wireless Subject: How to test if your access point BSSID is in the highly insecure Apple WPS database Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2025 05:08:08 -0700 Message-ID: <10guhv8$ig7$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> Tutorial: *Query the Apple database for your access point BSSID* 0. Download & install 7zip if you don't already have it on Windows. 1. Download & install Python 3.14.1 on Windows & create site-packages Name: python-3.14.1-amd64.exe Size: 29883656 bytes (28 MiB) SHA256: 74E1516408744190FCC12307C150DE30902898444F77F85F4C2AC18F36788A80 I installed into C:\app\os\python\python.exe REM Create site-packages if missing mkdir C:\app\os\python\Lib\site-packages 2. Download the requests package & copy into your Python environment Name: requests-2.32.5.tar.gz Size: 134517 bytes (131 KiB) SHA256: DBBA0BAC56E100853DB0EA71B82B4DFD5FE2BF6D3754A8893C3AF500CEC7D7CF When 7-Zip asks Would you like to replace the existing file @PaxHeader, Press A (Always) to overwrite all such header files. C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x requests-2.32.5.tar.gz C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x requests-2.32.5.tar xcopy /E /I requests-2.32.5\src\requests C:\app\os\python\Lib\site-packages\requests 3. Do the same for urllib3 -> handles HTTP connections Name: urllib3-2.5.0.tar.gz Size: 393185 bytes (383 KiB) SHA256: 3FC47733C7E419D4BC3F6B3DC2B4F890BB743906A30D56BA4A5BFA4BBFF92760 C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x urllib3-2.5.0.tar.gz C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x urllib3-2.5.0.tar xcopy /E /I urllib3-2.5.0\src\urllib3 C:\app\os\python\Lib\site-packages\urllib3 4. Do the same for certifi -> provides SSL certificates Name: certifi-2025.11.12.tar.gz Size: 160538 bytes (156 KiB) SHA256: D8AB5478F2ECD78AF242878415AFFCE761CA6BC54A22A27E026D7C25357C3316 C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x certifi-2025.11.12.tar.gz C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x certifi-2025.11.12.tar xcopy /E /I certifi-2025.11.12\certifi C:\app\os\python\Lib\site-packages\certifi 5. Do the same for idna -> supports international domain names Name: idna-3.11.tar.gz Size: 194582 bytes (190 KiB) SHA256: 795DAFCC9C04ED0C1FB032C2AA73654D8E8C5023A7DF64A53F39190ADA629902 xcopy /E /I idna-3.11\idna C:\app\os\python\Lib\site-packages\idna C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x idna-3.11.tar.gz C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x idna-3.11.tar xcopy /E /I idna-3.11\idna C:\app\os\python\Lib\site-packages\idna 6. Do the same for charset'normalizer -> handles text encoding Name: charset_normalizer-3.4.4.tar.gz Size: 129418 bytes (126 KiB) SHA256: 94537985111C35F28720E43603B8E7B43A6ECFB2CE1D3058BBE955B73404E21A C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x charset_normalizer-3.4.4.tar.gz C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x charset_normalizer-3.4.4.tar xcopy /E /I charset_normalizer-3.4.4\src\charset_normalizer C:\app\os\python\Lib\site-packages\charset_normalizer 7. Test for the expected outcome of "2.32.5" C:\app\os\python\python.exe -c "import requests; print(requests.__version__)" 8. Now we have to add the protobuf 5.29.4 archive https://files.pythonhosted.org/packages/source/p/protobuf/protobuf-5.29.4.tar.gz Name: protobuf-5.29.4.tar.gz Size: 424902 bytes (414 KiB) SHA256: 4F1DFCD7997B31EF8F53EC82781FF434A28BF71D9102DDDE14D076ADCFC78C99 C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x protobuf-5.29.4.tar.gz C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x protobuf-5.29.4.tar xcopy /E /I protobuf-5.29.4\google C:\app\os\python\Lib\site-packages\google Note that protobuf has a version compatibility rule which only shows up once you actually try to load a generated .proto file. When you run the apple_bssid_locator.py, it will complain if the version of protoc you installed is different than what had been used to generate AppleWLoc_pb2.py. 9. Test for expected outcome of "5.29.4" C:\app\os\python\python.exe -c "from google import protobuf; print(protobuf.__version__)" 10. Download & extract the Apple_bssid_locator project Name: apple_bssid_locator-master.zip Size: 509563 bytes (497 KiB) SHA256: 59A89D3AF89E70012493668BD71DD640C8EF39F15A88955E25B7AE242FCFC7BF I extracted to C:\tmp\apple_bssid_locator-master\apple_bssid_locator.py 11. Obtain your own BSSID of your hidden SSID access point AA:BB:CC:11:22:33 Or scan your local network for BSSIDs: netsh wlan show networks mode=bssid 12. Run the script cd C:\tmp\apple_bssid_locator-master C:\app\os\python\python.exe apple_bssid_locator.py AA:BB:CC:11:22:33 If the BSSID is in the Apple database, you'll get something like this: { "bssid": "AA:BB:CC:11:22:33", "latitude": 40.12345678, "longitude": -120.12345678 "ssid": null } Convert that to a location using the Google Maps URI: -- "In this work, we show that Apples WPS implementation can easily be abused to create a serious privacy threat on a global scale." "In this work, we show that Apple's flawed WPS can too easily be abused" "The attack risk stems from Apple's WiFi-based Positioning System, or WPS" "An unrestricted Apple API endpoint allows for easy tracking." "Anyone can exploit Apple's flawed WiFi-based positioning system (WPS)* "Researchers have discovered a crucial vulnerability in the way only Apple's location services work" "The threat applies even to users that do not own devices for which the WPSes are designed - individuals who own no Apple products, for instance, can have their AP in Apple's WPS merely by having Apple devices come within Wi-Fi transmission range." "There is one crucial difference between the way in which Apple and Google devices carry out this task and that's exactly where the privacy issue arises." "We need to understand Apple devices figure out locations differently" "Researchers from the University of Maryland have uncovered a significant privacy vulnerability in Apple's Wi-Fi-based Positioning System (WPS). This vulnerability enables attackers to track devices globally by exploiting the way Apple's WPS operates, raising serious privacy concerns." *Apple's Wi-Fi-Based Positioning System is a Privacy Nightmare* "Researchers from the University of Maryland have uncovered a significant privacy vulnerability in Apple's Wi-Fi-based Positioning System (WPS). This vulnerability enables attackers to track devices globally by exploiting the way Apple's WPS operates, raising serious privacy concerns." Back to alt.comp.os.windows-10 | Previous | Next ¡X Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread Thread Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-06 10:55 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Mario Tomasella - 2025-12-06 20:08 +0000 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-06 14:00 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-07 01:45 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-08 20:47 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-14 02:05 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-14 02:52 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-15 05:21 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-15 12:48 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-17 02:34 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-17 02:52 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-17 03:29 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-18 14:29 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Winston - 2025-12-18 16:43 -0500 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Paul - 2025-12-19 00:01 -0500 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-21 17:55 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Jeff Liebermann - 2025-12-21 20:25 -0800 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-21 21:49 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Chris - 2025-12-22 15:08 +0000 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-22 09:30 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-22 10:39 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Paul - 2025-12-19 04:06 -0500 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-22 10:20 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Andy Burns - 2025-12-19 10:14 +0000 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" - 2025-12-19 12:01 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-21 21:32 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" - 2025-12-22 09:12 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-22 10:52 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" - 2025-12-22 19:34 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-24 11:00 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" - 2025-12-24 21:38 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-26 19:23 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" - 2025-12-27 19:27 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-27 19:44 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" - 2025-12-28 10:11 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-28 10:41 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" - 2025-12-28 22:10 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-28 17:12 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-28 17:24 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-28 17:24 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Hank Rogers - 2025-12-28 19:03 -0600 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" - 2025-12-29 08:09 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-29 01:16 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" - 2025-12-29 11:32 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-29 04:14 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" - 2025-12-29 13:43 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" - 2025-12-30 12:07 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" - 2025-12-29 07:32 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-29 01:23 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" - 2025-12-29 11:46 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-29 04:26 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" - 2025-12-29 14:11 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-21 20:35 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Andy Burns - 2025-12-22 06:28 +0000 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-22 10:44 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Andy Burns - 2025-12-22 06:41 +0000 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Chris - 2025-12-22 09:27 +0000 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-22 10:48 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Andy Burns - 2025-12-22 18:00 +0000 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Char Jackson - 2025-12-22 15:42 -0600 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Hank Rogers - 2025-12-22 19:40 -0600 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Chris - 2025-12-23 10:00 +0000 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Char Jackson - 2025-12-24 00:43 -0600 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-24 06:38 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID WolfFan - 2026-01-01 15:34 -0500 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-29 01:31 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Andy Burns - 2025-12-30 17:11 +0000 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-31 12:47 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" - 2025-12-30 22:24 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Char Jackson - 2025-12-30 17:18 -0600 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" - 2025-12-31 08:03 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-31 00:51 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Char Jackson - 2025-12-31 20:24 -0600 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-31 20:30 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" - 2026-01-01 07:57 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Maria Sophia - 2026-01-01 18:37 -0500 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" - 2026-01-01 08:21 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" - 2025-12-31 08:17 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-31 00:57 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian - 2025-12-31 01:17 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Jeff Liebermann - 2026-01-01 11:07 -0800 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" - 2026-01-01 21:05 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" - 2026-01-01 21:12 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Jeff Liebermann - 2026-01-01 14:09 -0800 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" - 2026-01-02 09:13 +0100