Path: csiph.com!x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net!usenet.pasdenom.info!gegeweb.org!de-l.enfer-du-nord.net!feeder1.enfer-du-nord.net!news.weisnix.org!newsfeed.ision.net!newsfeed2.easynews.net!ision!newsfeed.arcor.de!newsspool3.arcor-online.net!news.arcor.de.POSTED!not-for-mail
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Message-ID: <2259043.FRqVoOGUtd@PointedEars.de>
From: Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Reply-To: Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <php@PointedEars.de>
Organization: PointedEars Software (PES)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 20:37:52 +0100
User-Agent: KNode/4.4.11
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit
Subject: Re: loose thinking
Newsgroups: comp.lang.php
References: <9o7h5fFu6rU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> <jfma85$qmb$1@dont-email.me> <9o7q84F33fU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> <slrnjhtf9j.51n.hellsop@nibelheim.ninehells.com> <2028906.az0AgUPcgG@PointedEars.de> <slrnji02kb.51n.hellsop@nibelheim.ninehells.com>
Followup-To: comp.lang.php
MIME-Version: 1.0
Lines: 74
NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Jan 2012 20:37:52 CET
NNTP-Posting-Host: 534a10ce.newsspool3.arcor-online.net
X-Trace: DXC=JVQR=SZn3B:^8FBo0_81f>McF=Q^Z^V384Fo<]lROoR18kF<OcfhCO;C?h^emQ26N;DZm8W4\YJN<;?f@h5gMfb<>@dMN77i@H1lDG^<jS1dN1
X-Complaints-To: usenet-abuse@arcor.de
Xref: x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net comp.lang.php:4610

Peter H. Coffin wrote:

> On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 04:49:19 +0100, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Peter H. Coffin wrote:
>>> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 14:32:52 +0100, M. Strobel wrote:
>>>> Okay I see it is well documented. I just started testing.
>>>>
>>>> I am angry about it because not even isset() respects the null value
>>>> here. I think it makes more sense this way: isset($a[null]) should
>>>> return false, because there is no null index.
>>> Parens change precedence. Even on functions.
>>
>> You are missing the point, which is: `null' is being converted to the
>> primitive string value ''.  A key of an *associative* array may be the
>> empty string.  And that is good so.
> 
> That's the *same point*, not "missing the point". I'm sorry that I'm not
> wandering down the same mental path would, but I don't think in exactly
> the same terms you do. Not everybody does.

I do not follow.  Please explain why you think (operator) precedence has 
something to do with this problem.

>> What is questionable here is the implicit type conversion of non-numeric
>> values to string.  But PHP is not alone there, so this behavior can be
>> expected.  It might be nice if E_STRICT reported such spurious
>> conversions
>> or there was an even stricter mode that forbade them.  Perhaps in PHP 6
>> ???

There were no question marks in my posting, there was an ellipsis.  Please 
get a working newsreader; Unicode and UTF-8 are anything but new or exotic 
nowadays.
 
> null's a special case that's NOT reported. Other cases of this are
> reported.
> 
> hellsop /home/hellsop
> [07:57:10] $ cat foo.php
> <?php
> 
> $arr = array( q => 'r');
> 
> print_r($arr);
> 
> ?>
> hellsop /home/hellsop
> [07:57:12] $ php -f foo.php
> PHP Notice:  Use of undefined constant q - assumed 'q' in
> /home/hellsop/foo.php on line 3

Please notice that this is only a notice.

> Array
> (
>     [q] => r
> )
> hellsop /home/hellsop
> [07:57:15] $

Because `null' is a reserved word, thus cannot be the identifier of a 
constant.  Where `null' is the value of another expression (like a variable 
reference), PHP shows its being influenced by C, Perl and Tcl, and its 
applicability as a shell scripting language, where (with the exception of C) 
loose typing is common and you do not have to declare variables before you 
refer to them.


PointedEars
-- 
    realism:    HTML 4.01 Strict
    evangelism: XHTML 1.0 Strict
    madness:    XHTML 1.1 as application/xhtml+xml
                                                    -- Bjoern Hoehrmann