Path: csiph.com!news.swapon.de!aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=c3=b8j?= Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer Subject: Re: Free auditing to 5-day Ruby on Rails codecamp next week Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2015 22:10:34 -0500 Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server Lines: 124 Message-ID: References: <30c5c642-906d-421c-ad54-58fec4d0be50@googlegroups.com> <1473221e-ef24-4a7c-b5c3-d2248d16aa92@googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 1lM8B9/qdtKBc/uIRK2Gjw.user.speranza.aioe.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.2 Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.java.programmer:33115 On 11/11/2015 8:04 AM, Eric Douglas wrote: > On Tuesday, November 10, 2015 at 7:39:37 PM UTC-5, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> Let us use dice.com assuming US market. >> >> Languages: >> >> 16783 jobs requiring Java >> 11918 jobs requiring JavaScript >> 2804 jobs requiring PHP >> 1910 jobs requiring Ruby >> 708 jobs requiring Scala >> 415 jobs requiring Groovy >> >> Web frameworks: >> >> 1150 jobs requiring node.js >> 883 jobs requiring Rails >> 862 jobs requiring Struts >> 545 jobs requiring Play >> 401 jobs requiring JSF >> 171 jobs requiring Grails >> 149 jobs requiring ZF >> 31 jobs requiring Wicket >> >> Neither RoR nor Grails seems to be dying. But are not in the Java or >> PHP league either. > > Number of current job openings is not an indicator of whether a > language is dying. If companies hire a lot then it can not really be called dying. > You'd have to see long term trends. Well - you have no guarantee that trends will continue. "past performance does not necessarily predict future results" is they say. But for some of the the language part I can actually provide some history: 18-Dec-2011 10-Nov-2015 Java 16135 16783 PHP 3328 2804 Ruby 1661 1910 Surprisingly little change in 4 years! > Having fewer job > openings could be a good thing if it's gaining popularity and there's a > lot fewer developers applying. Job openings are just the demand side. There is obviously also a supply side. To estimate supply vs demand I will recommend that you look at how long the job ads has been up. long time => supply < demand short time => supply > demand You could also try and look at salary levels. high => supply < demand low => supply > demand But even though that is what economic theory predicts then the modern job market is rather complex when it gets to salary determination. Anyway - indeed.com gives the following average salaries: Java 102 K$ JavaScript 99 K$ PHP 89 K$ Ruby 107 K$ Scala 120 K$ Groovy 112 K$ But if you want my subjective guess, then I think this more reflect the type of developers choosing the languages than it reflects supply and demand. Or to be more specific: I don't think Scala being in the top reflect that companies demand more Scala developers than there are available - I think it reflects that the developers that master Scala are all top developers (because it is not an easy language to master) and they would get a good salary no matter what they chose to program in. >> JavaScript with the exception of node.js and similar is client side, >> while the rest is server side. >> >> Even with a true client side HTML/CSS/JS app you will need >> some services server side for practically all usage. > > That's the crazy part of the web development career path. There are > languages used only for clients and other languages used only on servers > and you have to know them all to find a new job because the companies > mix and match. The "full stack developer" is in fashion right now. But there is so much you need to know. HTML, CSS, client side JS a server side language SQL XML, XSD, XPath JSON general OOP etc. >> In the Java world those services would typically be based on JAX-RS. > > Oh great, one more thing to learn? Guess so. But it is relative easy. Arne