Path: csiph.com!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder3.hal-mli.net!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder1.hal-mli.net!news.albasani.net!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!border3.nntp.ams.giganews.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.bt.com!news.bt.com.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 06:07:45 -0600 Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 12:07:43 +0000 From: lipska the kat <"lipskathekat at yahoo dot co dot uk"> Organization: Trollbusters 3 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130308 Thunderbird/17.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer Subject: Re: Teaching Java, teaching what? References: <52a5b585$0$2906$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <52a5df22$0$2920$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <52a66816$0$296$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> <52a6f363$0$2880$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> In-Reply-To: <52a6f363$0$2880$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: Lines: 67 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com X-AuthenticatedUsername: NoAuthUser X-Trace: sv3-ADb/HtGYJvfa8XVKb+5S5nLIsG4q7CmI1s9fuNxVO0RmBq820x/MQs6Iy/Zgr/QXJGdidWtsKDEif9D!/IuvLODNX2LnsZgSbXlUQhgwlSuZ0iJr0xzNcfX2W13pPlsGYkloP4ajYWzy7KNf9gWKZp1y7g== X-Complaints-To: abuse@btinternet.com X-DMCA-Complaints-To: abuse@btinternet.com X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 X-Original-Bytes: 4058 Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.java.programmer:26819 On 10/12/13 10:56, Silvio wrote: > On 12/10/2013 02:02 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> On 12/9/2013 10:17 AM, Silvio wrote: >> >> A desktop app is very standalone. > > Yes, it is. > >> >> Web means: >> - two apps: browser and server > > Yep. > >> - knowledge of at least HTML required (CSS and JS optional) > > Like I already mentioned. > >> - a little bit of knowledge about HTTP and the interaction > > Likewise. > >> >> And web is often less OO than desktop apps, which may move >> focus from the purpose of the course. > > I usually get nervous twitches when people start saying something is > more or less OO. There is no such thing as general OO-ness and saying > that web is less OO than desktop is complete nonsense. Spot on. *Web development* is actually a misnomer. I prefer 'web interface'. The 'OO'ness of something shouldn't depend on the user interface. An OO system encapsulates the human concepts of 'business' and 'system' and presents (or should present) an end user interface agnostic facade to any client that might want to use it. In the classic [simplified] three tier web application we have a browser who's responsibility is to interface with a human being, a 'bit in the middle' who's responsibility it is to implement the business logic (for want of a better term) and some mechanism to persist important data. The application executing on the bit in the middle is the thing we are interested in. Whether it is 'OO' or not has nothing to do with a particular interface. FWIW Way back when, I worked for a training company. My job was to develop their Java training offering. One of my courses focused on the early J2EE offering with particular focus on EJB. I used an early release of Weblogic and built a CD containing everything required to run the labs. I developed a collection of DOS batch files and Unix shell scripts that automated the installation and configuration of the app server and it's dependencies. The student would insert the disk, click the relevant script file and in less than 2 minutes everything was up and running. Make no mistake, this was heavy on the OO aspect of software engineering with plenty of opportunity to delve into the darker corners of the language. It worked a treat and I used and developed it over a period of two years. I still have the CD somewhere... wonder if it still works? -- Lipska the Kat©: Troll hunter, sandbox destroyer, treacherous feline and farscape dreamer of Aeryn Sun GNU/Linux user #560883 - http://www.linuxcounter.net