Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Rod Pemberton" Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth Subject: Re: forth to drive automated fast food machines Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2014 22:40:23 -0400 Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server Lines: 75 Message-ID: References: <82c707bc-8c44-4805-8a05-42996014ed29@googlegroups.com> <2a8071f0-cb78-488a-949e-a58b0c7ea5a7@googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: CNsg4fVcCsvs3UaOgZtQCw.user.speranza.aioe.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.16 (Linux) X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.2 Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.forth:34002 On Thu, 16 Oct 2014 22:55:26 -0400, wrote: > On Thursday, October 16, 2014 12:38:30 PM UTC-7, Bernd Paysan wrote: >> Jason Damisch wrote: >> > On Wednesday, October 15, 2014 6:36:56 PM UTC-7, foxaudio...@gmail.com >> > wrote: >> >> that driverless cars were not in the foreseeable future. >> >> They were being tested in 2010. > > [...] > > The problem I foresee, is that all of the cars will be using the same > algorithm, Unlikely, the Germans would never use an algorithm the Americans developed. It's a matter of pride or nationalism or racism or some other insane irrationality to them. The Japanese and Chinese would develop their own simply because they can, superiority complexes, but claiming that cost or control was needed. > Of course, we have the same problem with people. One person slows down > to gawk at a traffic accident on the other side of the road, and the > people behind have to slow down to avoid rear-ending him. But, while > they are driving slow they become distracted by gawking at the traffic > accident on the other side of the road, and so they don't speed up as > soon as the should --- pretty soon you have miles of traffic jam and the > vast majority don't know why they are driving so slow, and there is no > physical problem with the road to cause anybody to drive slow. If the cop never turned on his lights or the news announcer never announced snow or rain, most traffic jams wouldn't occur either. So, this is a cascade failure, part of human nature in groups, fearing something that isn't likely to happen to them. > Maybe computers will actually be smarter than people because they are > less likely to be distracted. There is no doubt in my mind that computers will excel with math and logic. It's the irrational and emotional and religious aspects of human nature which we classify as part of our consciousness that will not be mastered by machines. This will also allow us to declare otherwise sentient machines as being non-sentient allowing us to murder them without cause and without it being a crime, much like we do with hunting of animals or killing of livestock. > When the AI enthusiasts predict that > computers will someday be as smart as people, I always ask: "Does this > mean that the computers will smoke crack, watch television, and collect > welfare?" We can add "cause traffic jams" to that list as well. Smart is not the same as rational. Don't conflate the two. There are many smart, but irrational liberals. Some are lame comedians on TV. > To avoid the feedback-loop problem, the cars' algorithm would need a > random element, so it is not doing the same thing as every other car, > and a harmonic-resonance will be disrupted. It's a design feature. When cars are moving in a pack and controlled by computers, no one can travel faster than the slowest moving vehicle for undetermined safety reasons ... > So, if you're riding in an automated car, and it suddenly switches > lanes for no apparent reason or does some other pointless maneuver, > that would be the Random-Number-God taking control. More likely it would be a hacker or rogue government agency with too much authority to hide it's crimes. We can't keep Russian and Chinese hackers out of our computer systems now. Obama can't keep American Mexicans from jumping the fence at the White House. There is no way he could stop Mexican Mexicans from jumping the fence at the border. Rod Pemberton