Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!news.stack.nl!aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Rod Pemberton" Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth Subject: Re: Forth16e, Forth32e, "de facto" forth programming standards for embedded Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 18:15:25 -0400 Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server Lines: 57 Message-ID: References: <49aa991d-41c6-44ae-afe4-ad1b7434011b@googlegroups.com> <62cc3792-e246-4f0b-b671-c09908d5f3b0@googlegroups.com> <9f8a7188-7ef0-4ae4-8341-e27a41f9a44b@googlegroups.com> <836283a2-64a1-4811-b653-13a099fbbb46@googlegroups.com> <0ade3c7c-d1c0-41f5-8f5e-055d66aaff6b@googlegroups.com> <53c928c6.819888433@news.demon.co.uk> <7xmwc69rdv.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7xegxi9pzi.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7edd6024-75fc-4c09-a7a9-892cd8b2c176@googlegroups.com> <571d1c1c-d3a1-4721-a0d8-99339b300159@googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: CNsg4fVcCsvs3UaOgZtQCw.user.speranza.aioe.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.16 (Linux) X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.2 Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.forth:33471 On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 04:30:50 -0400, rickman wrote: > On 9/19/2014 8:05 PM, Rod Pemberton wrote: >> On Mon, 21 Jul 2014 02:01:18 -0400, Rod Pemberton >> wrote: >>> On Sun, 20 Jul 2014 12:28:32 -0400, BruceMcF >>> wrote: >>>> On Saturday, July 19, 2014 9:36:25 PM UTC-4, Rod Pemberton wrote: >>>>> On Sat, 19 Jul 2014 19:36:18 -0400, wrote: >>>>> > In my language, locals produce an address that can then be >>>>> accessed with >>>>> > @ and ! like any variable (I don't support TO at all). >>>> >>>>> Uh... How is that any different from just using a variable? >>>> >>>> The space is allocated on call and emptied on return. In common >>>> language, Hugh is saying that his language implements local variables >>>> rather than either local values or both. That's pretty much implied by >>>> "I don't support TO at all", since no TO, no values; no values, no >>>> local values. >>> >>> So, he's reinventing C in Forth, which is something he hostilely >>> decries when Anton does it ... or when others reject his non-C >>> compatible memory allocator. Maybe, he should learn C first so >>> he doesn't actually recreate C in Forth. At least Anton is aware >>> of what he's doing. >> >> I think this quote by Koopman is conclusive proof that Hugh is >> reinventing Forth in C: >> >> " For Forth users, the frame pointer can provide unexpected >> benefits. Many Forth programmers have advocated the use of >> local variables of some sort as a way of improving code >> organization and readability. A frame pointer mechanism >> makes an ideal implementation vehicle for a local variable >> stack, as well as providing a clean interface between C >> procedures and Forth subroutines." >> >> - Philipp Koopman >> >> The quote from "Design Tradeoffs in Stack Computers", >> Forth Dimensions, Volume 11 Number 6, March/April 1990. >> >> An article only pdf is available from Koopman: >> http://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/forth/4thdim_11_6.pdf >> > Did you say one of these backwards? > > "So, he's reinventing C in Forth" > > "Hugh is reinventing Forth in C" > Lol. Yes, the latter, more recent reply. Sorry about that. RP