Path: csiph.com!optima2.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!feeder.erje.net!1.eu.feeder.erje.net!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Rod Pemberton" Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth Subject: Re: Forth programming style... Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2015 04:51:18 -0400 Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server Lines: 57 Message-ID: References: <37e85f47-5cf3-4033-9e9d-bfc31c582edc@googlegroups.com> <1a2e838f-e3f7-4f99-a321-9a02c1d6d6cb@googlegroups.com> <84a2fcaf-807e-46a0-8c38-e68515a83c67@googlegroups.com> <654e3729-7fce-4a04-a707-a0d5f7ab6050@googlegroups.com> <55357ad6-5a4b-4ef6-b46b-7d05f9c5b3cf@googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: n4wpt9zq8xR26Ttf9mo2BA.user.speranza.aioe.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.16 (Linux) X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.2 Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.forth:41073 On Sun, 02 Aug 2015 09:54:05 -0400, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote: > On 8/1/15 9:04 PM, Rod Pemberton wrote: >> On Wed, 22 Jul 2015 06:14:25 -0400, Mark Wills >> wrote: >>> I want to say something about phrases. I believe the concept of >>> phrases exist in Forth, much more than other programming languages. >> >> ? >> >> Do you mean the language is more like English than algebra? ... >> >>> I believe that very experienced Forth programmers can analyse code >>> and recognise common phrases and understand what they are doing at >>> an almost unconcious level, similar to an epxerienced music reader >>> reading a stave. I believe Elizabeth can do this. I, alas, cannot. >>> I have to read each word and conciously compute what is happening. >>> I have to execute the code in my head, word by word. I believe >>> Elizabeth and some of the others here (Stephen, Anton, Bernd, >>> Hugh) do not. They understand it at a more unconcious, instinctual >>> level. Experience really pays off in Forth. >>> >> >> Well, I've only coded my Forth system in Forth, which Ms. Rather >> dismisses as mostly non-standard Forth coding. The solutions for >> some of the system words are rather abstruse. It's unlikely that >> I would do what they do if I ever coded a "normal" Forth application. >> It'd be too cryptic or wouldn't "flow" easily or be elegant or >> fast, etc. > > I have no idea what this is trying to say. Clearly. If I was coding a Forth program - which I haven't done - and not a Forth interpreter - which I have done - then, I likely wouldn't do some of the complicated stuff that some of the Forth system words require when coding words for the Forth program. I.e., I would most likely use a simpler, more fluid, easier to grasp, perhaps more factored, method of coding for a regular Forth program. E.g., some stack sequences for stack words or loop primitives are generated by an optimizer and are almost indecipherable by a human. These are shorter, faster than more readable definitions. > FORTH, Inc's Forth systems > are all coded in Forth, with the exception of key primitives which we > write using Forth assembler because they need to be fast. ... as does my Forth. Rod Pemberton -- Scientists now say we'll experience a mini-ice in 2030. So, I guess we need more global warming today ...