Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Rod Pemberton" Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth Subject: Re: i didn't realize many forther swere such a pakc of communists and capitalims haters Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 16:47:00 -0500 Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server Lines: 102 Message-ID: References: <3897f848-100f-461f-b721-cbe6a0589d76@googlegroups.com> <52ab3b0c$0$2917$e4fe514c@dreader36.news.xs4all.nl> NNTP-Posting-Host: CNsg4fVcCsvs3UaOgZtQCw.user.speranza.aioe.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.16 (Linux) X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.2 Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.forth:27263 On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 11:51:24 -0500, Albert van der Horst wrote: > In article , > Rod Pemberton wrote: > The USA is an excellent example of what not to do in terms of economy, > food habits, weapon control, education, judicial system, patents, > solidarity, > monetary system, conformance to internation[al] treaties and other > things. > Most here would argue that only a few of those have issues and they're not serious or long-term issues. To me, it's interesting you brought up food. Apparently, many food companies from countries in the EU are attempting to use free trade agreements to push lower quality, and higher cost foods into the US market. According to our news sources, this food doesn't meet our food requirements. Apparently, the EU has even more strict food requirements than the US. So, the food the EU is attempting to export to our country doesn't meet the EU's food requirements either. I take this as a proxy that our economy is an example of what to do, at least in terms of food. For the EU, off the top of my head, I can cite organized crime, lack of social mobility, generally lower per capita income, high long term unemployment in multiple countries, issues with safe, effective, legal waste disposal, numerous failed and debt ridden economies, lack of certain important rights, authoritarian governments, invasive spying on citizens, food control, quality, and safety issues (e.g., horse meat scandal), etc. Well, you stated that those are bad examples. Apparently, that just's your opinion since you didn't provide any justification for those beliefs. I.e., where does the negative perception you have come from? Do you expect it to be obvious to all that read what you said? Do you expect it to be obvious to Americans? It's clearly not based on the issues presented here by our news sources. My thoughts on a few of those are below. Our economy will improve immensely when a Republican President is elected, and somewhat more modestly if a Democrat with different, pro-business views is elected. Democrats are never concerned about money, jobs, wealth, economy. They're only concerned about societal ills, most of which are result of poverty resulting from a bad economy. I.e., the policies of our current President are almost entirely to blame for the current economic situation. Our education system is going through a process of change with tougher teaching standards and providing a common curriculum nationwide. This is currently believed to be a major improvement. A few years ago, most states implemented more rigorous testing requirements for teachers. Unfortunately, that wasn't at the federal level like the new curriculum. So, not all states are providing better trained teachers for students. Most of the schools that are and have been underperforming are in poverty stricken areas where they can't afford better teachers, or where those teachers are afraid to work due to crime which is also a symptom of poverty. Our obesity issue is well publicized. The issue is I don't see any fat people like they show on the news... I've only seen one person that fat in my life. The 1980's and 1990's there was a huge health and exercise movement throughout much of the US. Does that mean Americans still exercise enough? No. They've gained a few pounds. So, Americans are now aware of health issues like diabetes related to obesity, over-eating, lack of exercise, and fast food. Changes to personal, government, school, and corporation food have taken place, or will. Fats, unhealthy oils, salts have been reduced in nearly all sources of food here. Recently, many larger cities have been creating spaces where people can get more exercise, like bike trails and right-of-way for bikes on roads. Most suburban and rural areas have plenty of trails. Almost all areas have plenty of parks for physical recreation. Obviously, cheaper food costs are hindered immensely in America by animal rights activists whose activities improve the welfare of animals at the expense of society, especially the poor. Of course, much of the obesity epidemic can be traced to those in poverty who can't afford healthy food, and generally won't buy healthy food even when provided with government food subsidies. Poverty, of course, is fixable in a capitalist society, usually rather easily and directly by those in poverty, if only they take action. There are many social services by our government, such as food, healthcare, energy, water, heating subsidies, and numerous non-profit companies and foundations which help the poor. Free or subsidized education and job training are available too. After which, it's just a matter of them obtaining a job and working. That's something many don't want to do. The one thing you can't say America doesn't do is change. It changes rapidly to address issues, at least, compared to the EU, Russia, South Africa, Brazil, China, and the rest of the world for that matter. > To learn from bad examples has nothing to do with discrimination. > Well, then I think you'd suggest I say that to Alex the every time he confuses and conflates discussion or mention of race with racism. Rod Pemberton