Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!weretis.net!feeder4.news.weretis.net!news.musoftware.de!wum.musoftware.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail From: "Paul E. Bennett" Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth Subject: Re: Olympic Spririt for Forth Followup-To: comp.lang.forth Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 22:03:42 +0100 Organization: Hidecs Consultancy Lines: 65 Message-ID: References: <70fba44e-473b-49b2-b04d-ae49a83bfe74@googlegroups.com> <7x391zgx4p.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <38bc373a-aa2f-4251-9247-1fbfbfcf5f6c@googlegroups.com> Reply-To: Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-Trace: individual.net sPWgTfWq1mVx3/ZxY1AOTwLBWyBoh8VpGd0Q/HDfY6yA9ctDrP Cancel-Lock: sha1:2v0a6iVUqtK1JAqCTDYnqK2ZyDc= Mail-Copies-To: Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk User-Agent: KNode/0.99.01 Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.forth:15869 theoriginalsnial@gmail.com wrote: [%X] > Well, I was just responding to the initial post. Building your own > computer *is* inspiring. It's also a Forth-based computer, which is what > you want on this forum eh? Like proper computers it doesn't need an > external host to do any programming with it. And it's very similar to an > early 80s micro, using similar resources. > > But the key thing *is* the simplicity, that's what makes it special; > because only simple machines can be mastered and understood from > end-to-end. How does it benefit kids if their only true experience of > programming requires incomprehensible Giga-byte and GigaHertz, multi-core > monstrosities? How would they ever grasp it, if even reading the code in > the system would take many lifetimes? As an advocate of elegant simplicity I know that it is sometimes very hard to recognize it when you see it. However, simple doesn't always mean small scale systems. > And how is it inspirational if every computer we experience is > pre-packaged, surface-mount technology that requires a microscope to > modify it? It's in some sense impressive, but what does that say about > accessibility? I think we need things to be on several different levels. From plug-together pre-made simple modules through modifiable EVB's to completely packaged high end systems. All should have their place. > Ultimately, we have to weigh up why kids aren't inspired to program today. Which was the main crux of the original post on this thread. What kind of projects would "Inspire a Generation" of the kids coming through schools now. Whatever ideas come up we also need to remember that the teaching staff in schools will also need some help in understanding what they are putting to the kids and not only do we need kits but also good written material and teaching support aids. > Is it because computers aren't cheap enough (though even a netbook is 3x > cheaper than a ZX Spectrum in today's money)? Or could it be something to > do with them being 10,000 times more complex? Does FIGnition fit the STEM > club criteria? (yes) Can you do a substantial amount of a GCSE computer > studies on a FIGnition? (yes) Is FIGnition cute and fun? (you bet ;-) ) ! There are quite a number of cheap kits out there but which ones are most suitable. There is the MSP430 Launchpad with 4E4th, which can be got up and running for about 4 Euros, Arduino's and Raspberry Pi's to name a few. These cover a range of complexity levels and may suit different age ranges. I think something like the MSP Launchpad device needs a few kit board that just plug onto it to give a range of different projects from the simple starter kit. Judging by the cost constraints of many schools, these additional boards will also need to be inexpensive. Thanks for all the contributions so far. -- ******************************************************************** Paul E. Bennett............... Forth based HIDECS Consultancy Mob: +44 (0)7811-639972 Tel: +44 (0)1235-510979 Going Forth Safely ..... EBA. www.electric-boat-association.org.uk.. ********************************************************************