Path: csiph.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail From: Ian Collins Newsgroups: comp.lang.c Subject: Re: C is not a low level language Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2019 06:53:03 +1300 Lines: 42 Message-ID: References: <0001HW.2223125A02182A717000059092EF@news.individual.net> <6_VcE.2540$lRX.2246@fx12.am4> <0001HW.22283DDB0635C9A470000F02C2EF@news.individual.net> <8FWdE.416$Af.92@fx29.am4> <2b698155-86eb-45f7-aaf8-caf204725ca1@googlegroups.com> <4945eb58-8a6b-466f-9dbf-52e0f95da0e6@googlegroups.com> <169f2756-d8ea-40a2-b020-03fb6ea5904d@googlegroups.com> <81f1fb1e-b0f1-43ce-8cee-f4bf2f7250c6@googlegroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: individual.net OLwTOXWfS+tPR/7Uds2WQggm3Kjj6220HM4zy2fecuyBOe58as Cancel-Lock: sha1:+nNwwsAMYnsZ+BoXihzqX/D4sJU= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.1 In-Reply-To: <81f1fb1e-b0f1-43ce-8cee-f4bf2f7250c6@googlegroups.com> Content-Language: en-US Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.c:141616 On 03/03/2019 01:18, Rick C. Hodgin wrote: > On Saturday, March 2, 2019 at 2:20:44 AM UTC-5, Jorgen Grahn wrote: >> On Fri, 2019-03-01, Rick C. Hodgin wrote: >>> On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 2:37:33 PM UTC-5, Ian Collins wrote: >>>> On 02/03/2019 00:05, Rick C. Hodgin wrote: >>>>> On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 2:19:33 AM UTC-5, Ian Collins wrote: >>>>>> On 01/03/2019 14:54, Rick C. Hodgin wrote: >>>>>>> I could not get by without one. >>>>>> Using a debugger is an admission of defeat... >>>>> If your debugger is gdb, then I agree. :-) >>>> >>>> Irrelevant! >>>> >>>> It your code is well supported by tests, you don't need a debugger. If >>>> you find yourself wanting to use one, your tests aren't good enough! >>> >>> We've had this discussion before. We'll never come to agree- >>> ment on this issue. >> >> Right. I'm with Ian, but good programmers at work think working >> without an IDE-integrated debugger is crazy. > > My position against Ian's position is only that we do need debuggers > too. I agree unit testing is important, essential even, in long- > term software maintenance. > > I think Ian is in a minority group saying you don't need a debugger. A small minority that doesn't include me.... I was having a poke at using a debugger as a tool to develop code. Tests are no help if you get a crash dump from the field for example. But when it comes to developing new code, if you write it to pass tests and you commit little and often it is usually quicker to revert a breaking change and redo it that it is to attempt to debug the breakage. > I think he's also handicapping his performance (and possibly his > team's performance) by denying them use of a debugger. I'm not a debugger denier. -- Ian.