Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!news.glorb.com!npeer01.iad.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!border3.nntp.dca.giganews.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.supernews.com!news.supernews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 12:50:51 -0500
From: Steve Thompson <stevet810@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.c
Subject: Re: Compatibility question
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 17:36:03 +0000
Organization: Friends of the Galactic Collective
Message-ID: <RoCASm.kba.ZBW3z@gmail.com>
References: <ap54B1.hSk.bor8X@gmail.com> <lnr4opdm7m.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org> <VTQKnL.Au1.NMBnf@gmail.com> <lnzk3cvlzy.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org> <LAWkIU.3db.huHtX@gmail.com> <JRZhs.1467$iq6.763@newsfe21.iad> <M4cvUj.bxK.iyKox@gmail.com> <0.972249536f7c0681196f.20121026130214BST.878vat8mrd.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <MsQtTz.XLQ.LtIYK@gmail.com> <1bobjnlezr.fsf@new-snowball.wb.pfeifferfamily.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
User-Agent: NN 6.4.3
Lines: 74
X-Trace: sv3-M7IenVe0DUhNolDOjIMAF/PGx7Wk2RTAc2yewkU2Zyqum06b3ktph/7UB8Yqc7eKc1xOkOW5va2LQlz!Vp17bg0NgoOBCsncESMs5CDHZQJwCo3UwLWgPMTVJC6MZlwouWODFSx7cmd7lIE=
X-Complaints-To: www.supernews.com/docs/abuse.html
X-DMCA-Complaints-To: www.supernews.com/docs/dmca.html
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
X-Original-Bytes: 4559
X-Received-Bytes: 4700
Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.c:27797

On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 04:36:08PM -0600, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
> Steve Thompson <stevet810@gmail.com> writes:
> 
> > On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 01:02:14PM +0100, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> >> Steve Thompson <stevet810@gmail.com> writes:
> >> <snip>
> >> > My meta-point was basically about the fact that (a) English terminology
> >> > is overloaded, and not merely in relation to programming, and (b) that
> >> > it is useful to think about software, compilers, and programming in
> >> > general terms.  There is probably something worthwhile to be had in
> >> > examining the philosophy or metaphysics of computer software and
> >> > programming.  I think those who reflexively stomp on discussions that
> >> > move beyond the confines of a single standard or methodology are in
> >> > some way threatened by different ways of thinking about these
> >> > subjects.
> >> 
> >> Yes, that's possible, but sometimes Brave New Ideas are just wrong.
> >> 
> >> Sometimes evidence that they are wrong comes directly from their
> >> proponents, such as when you wrote that:
> >> 
> >>   "... conceptually 'a' is still a pointer to the data in the specific
> >>   structure identified by 'a'.  I found it very confusing when I was
> >>   learning C."
> >> 
> >> (This was in the context of a declaration like "struct point {
> >> int x, y, z; } a;".)
> >> 
> >> It's no wonder that you found it confusing: it's wrong.  It's going to
> >> be a hindrance to learning C to think of 'a' as a pointer when it
> >> isn't one, even "conceptually".
> >
> > I agree that it isn't a pointer in C, but it is an identifier that is
> > associated with the structure.  With a less restrictive definition of
> > 'pointer', it is and the implementation of its actual use in a program
> > mimics the semantics of a C pointer, to a certain degree.  Since I am
> > not using a restrictive definition of 'pointer' in every instance
> > where I use the term, I think my statements are logically coherent.
> >
> > If we're going to get hung up on the propriety of specific uses of
> > language terminology, you are correct in suggesting that this line of
> > discussion will be a train-wreck.
> 
> "But 'glory' doesn't mean 'a nice knock-down argument'," Alice
> objected.
> 
> "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it
> means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."
> 
> "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many
> different things."
> 
> "The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master -- that's
> all."

The underlying issue here is that people take liberty with language
and meaning to a degree that is shocking in some cases.  When I use
the word 'people' as in the previous sentence, am I suggesting a
meaning consistent with 'any member of the species homo sapiens', or
do I have a more restrictive definition in mind?

Your criticism is noted, but I think it is a hyperbole in relation to
the use of the term 'pointer' as in the previous several messages I
wrote in this thread.



Regards,

Steve Thompson

-- 
GOTO's are like guns.  Safety is entirely contingent on the user.