Path: csiph.com!news.mixmin.net!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Tim Rentsch Newsgroups: comp.lang.c++ Subject: Re: An argument *against* (the liberal use of) references Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2022 12:50:58 -0800 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 48 Message-ID: <86tu2447yl.fsf@linuxsc.com> References: <86y1ri3syn.fsf@linuxsc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Injection-Info: reader01.eternal-september.org; posting-host="53a6f3a968d6b54e1413f52d3c3af34e"; logging-data="1389015"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19p0ywRVkDrihGLbcDo2TewuvFqKK/YtgA=" User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.4 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:6l6RpiScutZFLZ+vnOwPqsfKsf4= sha1:x8l56IbIVHiTJarqFL0tcSf88IM= Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.c++:87786 Michael S writes: > On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 3:50:43 PM UTC+2, Tim Rentsch wrote: > >> Juha Nieminen writes: >> >> [...] >> >>> I don't often like to quote the way-too-often-wrongly-quoted and >>> way-too-often-completely-misunderstood "early optimization is the >>> root of all evil", [...] >> >> Amusing that this comment wrongly quotes the original. > > premature - ennenaikaista, ennenaikainen > early - aikaisin, aikainen > All words appear to have the same root 'aika'==time. > If I am going to believe google translate then 'ennenaikaista' means > literally 'before early time'. So, may be, for person that thinks > in Finnish it is natural to translate it back to English like 'early'. > > It is not just Finnish. > It two languages that I speak most, common translation of > 'premature' is 'before time' and 'too early'. > Neither of the languages derives it from 'mature'. > Now, 'immature' is completely different story. This word is > translated rather close to original. But Knuth said 'premature' > rather than 'immature' and that provokes difficulties in translation. In English there is a significant difference between "early" and "premature". (It hadn't occurred to me that premature might be derived from mature.) The original source was written in English. It was written by Don Knuth, whose native language is English. The posting here was written in English. Furthermore the comment here is written as a quotation, and mentions that the saying is wrongly quoted. Once we are in the realm of quoting rather than paraphrasing there is no room for latitude. I am sympathetic to those whose native language is other than English and post in English. More than sympathetic, I admire them for their language skills, an area where I am woefully much less than fully competent. Even so, it behooves any non-native speaker to make an effort to use English correctly, and to want to use English correctly, when writing in English. And that especially applies when citing or quoting from a source written in English.