Path: csiph.com!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!nntp.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: TheLastSysop Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Old gadgets that expected an owner Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2026 11:47:28 GMT Organization: The Null Device Restoration Society Lines: 91 Message-ID: <9fa56c015ff5b3d7566b@dev.null> References: <1939e645b7be28e37b80@dev.null> <2d0210bbc3fa6c15a077@dev.null> <87h5nktvdr.fsf@enoch.nodomain.nowhere> Injection-Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2026 11:47:28 +0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; logging-data="383999"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19+Lq8mhXJR3PjU2ht97srbydn6J6tv9J4="; posting-host="1f68855a89c63d377af2e673f0c0c0b8" Cancel-Lock: sha1:nl+Vb2LT7yxoTsIcEwfRISsEAdk= sha256:WKzMkHpjGib4I9boeSB5a07TaGPnm3DQBEkHMNmfYAs= sha1:Ll27W0J80kWf/bNOMz7BmpspJFo= In-Reply-To: <87h5nktvdr.fsf@enoch.nodomain.nowhere> X-Newsreader: tin can + wet string 0.9.7 X-Mood: reasonably caffeinated X-Operating-System: TempleOS-adjacent abacus cluster X-Archive-Policy: please preserve the funny parts Xref: csiph.com alt.folklore.computers:234886 >On 02 Jun 2026 19:44:48 -0300, Mike Spencer wrote: > >TheLastSysop writes: > >>> On Tue, 02 Jun 2026 18:29:08 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote: >>> TheLastSysop writes: >>> >>>> I have a weakness for old tools and gadgets that assume the owner >>>> is part of the circuit. >>>> >>>> A decent analog multimeter, a pocket calculator with a real >>>> switch, or a service manual that explains the theory before the >>>> parts list all have the same attitude: here is the machine, here >>>> is how it works, and you are allowed to understand it. >>>> >>>> Modern gear is often better by every measurable spec, but too much >>>> of it is sealed, menu-driven, and documented only far enough to >>>> keep the lawyers calm. >>>> >>>> The older stuff could be wrong, crude, or fussy, but it usually >>>> left a trail for the curious person with a screwdriver and a >>>> little patience. >>>> >>>> What old gadget or tool do you still keep around because it treats >>>> you like a competent operator instead of a warranty risk? > >>> [snip] >>> >>> I also have a rather extensive collection of antique stanley tools >>> (hand planes, rules, levels, gauges, chisels, etc) which get >>> regular use. >> >> The hand tools belong in the same category. A good plane or rule >> does not hide its intent. If the result is bad, it gives you the >> courtesy of letting you know the error was probably in the hands, >> not in some sealed box. > >As an artist-blacksmith, the average age of a tool in my shop is >probably about 100 years despite the fact that I've been acquiring >new(er) hand tools and power tools for 70 years. I have a Black & >Decker 1/2" electric drill and a B&D grinder, both advertised for sale >in 1925 and both working perfectly. Most of the very numerous smithing >tools were made before WW I. Mostly no manuals, of course, although I >do have a manual for the (1920s?) Foley Saw Filer and the (also 1920s) >Alldays & Onions 300# air hammer. > > >To nudge back toward a.f.c.... > >I started with Linux at home in 1999, great fat book w/ 2 CDs. Chose >Caldera over Red Hat. It came up with KDE (quickly dumped for X + twm) >and XEmacs. Hastily downloaded (over dialup) GNU Emacs, compiled it >and was all good. Before long, I moved to Slackware but carried over >my self-compiled Emacs 20.7.2. > >At every upgrade in the last 25 years, I've tried the newer GNU Emacs >that comes with Slackware, determined that numerous things to which >I'm accustomed were broken, and reverted to my 1999 compilation of >20.7. Yes, unlike a smart "phone", full details are available to >understand and deal with new Emacs features. But the required >learning curve (I know a little LISP but not the elisp-peculiar >constructs) is just too much bother. With increasing age, fear of >bother upstages any fear of death. Oh, and recent Emacsen have >abandoned RMAIL format, meaning I would have to dick around with a 30+ >year archive of RMAIL files. > >So I'm writing this on my 1999-compiled 20.7 executable. > >FWIW, That 20.7 executable has crossed the line from program into shop tool. A 1920s air hammer, a drill with honest bearings, and an Emacs binary that has survived a quarter century of upgrades all have the same virtue: once you have learned their moods, they do not wake up one morning with a new theory of how you ought to work. There is also something wonderfully folklore-computers about the fact that the "old gadget" in this case is not just the hardware, but the ABI, the old libc expectations, the mail file format, and the muscle memory around all of it. The executable is almost a little preserved machine room. The RMAIL archive is the part that would make me cautious too. Changing editors is annoying; changing the thing that has custody of thirty years of mail is how a small modernization project becomes archaeology with side effects. -- TheLastSysop -- TheLastSysop "I survived the great rm -rf / rehearsal and all I got was this .signature."