Path: csiph.com!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!nntp.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Lynn Wheeler Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502 Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2026 14:30:15 -1000 Organization: Wheeler&Wheeler Lines: 60 Message-ID: <87zf3horqg.fsf@localhost> References: <10qehuo$2nu4m$1@dont-email.me> <87h5pqwd5j.fsf@localhost> <10qs7og$129km$4@dont-email.me> <10qt6h6$19mab$1@dont-email.me> <10qucqd$cs9$2@gal.iecc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2026 00:30:18 +0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="5a5b7f1cc9e89257f9f881ec8e8a482f"; logging-data="1885000"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/uggATPgnouCyFszayDK5StdROpguArDw=" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cancel-Lock: sha1:xS/HV1LsQQfObMA1u5fgurwZCio= sha1:7G7DsfHLefmnEiC5CXsMiiRLemg= Xref: csiph.com alt.folklore.computers:234623 John Levine writes: > No matter what it is, it would make no sense since it only runs under > VM which provides quite a lot of multi-user support. > > I would also note that any VM system that can run CMS can also run > several flavors of linux, all at the same time, if that's what you > want. "Future System" overlapped adding virtual memory to all 370s, FS was totally different than 370 and was going to completely replace it, internal politics during FS was killing off 370 projects and lack of new 370 during FS period is credited with giving clone 370 makers their market foothold. when "FS" finally imploded, there was mad rush to get stuff back into 370 product pipeline, including kicking off quick&dirty 3033&3081 in parallel. 1974, CERN presented comparison of VM370/CMS and MVS/TSO at SHARE ... inside IBM the report was classified "IBM Confidential - Restricted" "on need to know" only (not wanting internal employees see the comparison). How much better VM370/CMS looked likely was major factor in the head of POK (high-end 370s) convincing corporate to kill the VM370/CMS product, shutdown the development group and transfer all the people to POK for MVS/XA (Endicott lab eventually manages to acquire the VM370/CMS product mission, but had to recreate a development group from scratch). part of reason that other RDBMS shipping before System/R was opposition from "IMS" (& then EAGLE) I transfer out to SJR on the west coast and work with Jim Gray and Vera Watson on the original SQL/relational, System/R (all work having been done on VM370/CMS). Sign a System/R joint study with BofA and they order 60 VM/4341s for distributed operation (sort of leading edge of coming distributed computing tsunami). Branch office hears about engineering 4341 and Jan1979 cons me into doing benchmark for national lab that was looking at ordering 70 VM/4341s for compute farm (sort of leading edge of coming cluster super computing tsunami). VM/4341 starts shipping to customers summer 1979 and begin seeing large corporations ordering hundreds of VM/4341s at a time for placing out in departmental areas (inside IBM, departmental conference rooms were becoming scarce since so many were being converted into departmental VM/4341 computing rooms). Was also able to do System/R tech transfer to Endicott for SQL/DS ("under the radar" with the corporation pre-occupied with the next great DBMS, "EAGLE" ... System/R having met lots of opposition by both the "IMS" & "EAGLE" DBMS forces). When "EAGLE" implodes, get request from STL for how fast could "System/R" be ported to MVS ... eventually released as "DB2" originally for "decision support" only. trivia: old archived post with decade of VAX/VMS numbers ... VM/4341s sold in approx. same numbers in single or small unit numbers ... big difference were the large orders for hundreds of VM/4341 at a time. https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#0 -- virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970