Path: csiph.com!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!nntp.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Lynn Wheeler Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2026 14:47:44 -1000 Organization: Wheeler&Wheeler Lines: 78 Message-ID: <878q560yfj.fsf@localhost> References: <10qehuo$2nu4m$1@dont-email.me> <87h5pqwd5j.fsf@localhost> <10qs7og$129km$4@dont-email.me> <10qt6h6$19mab$1@dont-email.me> <10qucqd$cs9$2@gal.iecc.com> <87zf3horqg.fsf@localhost> <87pkykc7s9.fsf_-_@debian> <11814e0$2vofg$1@dont-email.me> <87cxujd9pu.fsf@debian> <1181eh1$339lf$1@dont-email.me> <1181knq$339lf$3@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2026 00:47:46 +0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; logging-data="247173"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19bnlWO1sq5tIWJtZPColKupq+9tHhpeEo="; posting-host="e5bbf9cf81d96432ad63a411999323a3" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cancel-Lock: sha1:97NxdFmi8PTzPUrR/2RhQElE3MQ= sha1:+fJYHBPjv8TIS6ZcIZI/wn/8oUI= sha256:HHdpl/7HPDr4IKd4MaRnIYFF9+JLCnnjczqsLLD1y6M= sha1:fIvEsIVw7lByLkK06d8LSF9Izh8= sha256:DR5G3uzLhcBNOQQ7ZHk4lYOaTDVWjaFAHqqbTbhzMdI= Xref: csiph.com alt.folklore.computers:235595 Jeroen Belleman writes: > When I started at CERN in 1981, the principal computer > system was an IBM 360. We used WYLBUR for the editing > environment, with exec files for simple things and batch > processing with JCL for the more serious work. > It was clumsy, but I didn't know any better at the time. trivia: WYLBUR original came from stanford's virtual memory system done for 360/67 ... Univ of Michigan had done MTS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_Terminal_System and Stanford had done ORVYL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORVYL_and_WYLBUR ... later WYLBUR was ported to MVS Some of the MIT CTSS/7094 people had gone to 5th flr to do multics. Others went to the IBM Scientific Center on the 4th flr and did virtual machines (CP40/CMS morphs into CP67/CMS before morphing into VM370/CMS). CMS SCRIPT (redone CTSS RUNOFF) was done for CP67/CMS in 1968. Then some CSC co-workers invented GML in 1969 and GML tag processing was added to SCRIPT. After a decade, GML morphs into ISO standard SGML and after another decade morphs into HTML at CERN. Also account by one of the GML inventors ... original hired to promote CP67-based scientific center wide-area network https://web.archive.org/web/20230402212558/http://www.sgmlsource.com/history/jasis.htm Actually, the law office application was the original motivation for the project, something I was allowed to do part-time because of my knowledge of the user requirements. My real job was to encourage the staffs of the various scientific centers to make use of the CP-67-based Wide Area Network that was centered in Cambridge. ... snip ... CSC wide-area network morphs into the internal corporate network (larger than arpanet/internet from the beginning until sometime mid/late 80s ... about the time it was forced to convert to SNA/VTAM). Technology was also used for the corporate sponsored univ BITNET https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BITNET Edson (responsible for science center wide area entwork) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edson_Hendricks In June 1975, MIT Professor Jerry Saltzer accompanied Hendricks to DARPA, where Hendricks described his innovations to the principal scientist, Dr. Vinton Cerf. Later that year in September 15-19 of 75, Cerf and Hendricks were the only two delegates from the United States, to attend a workshop on Data Communications at the International Institute for Applied Systems Analysis, 2361 Laxenburg Austria where again, Hendricks spoke publicly about his innovative design which paved the way to the Internet as we know it today. ... SJMerc article about Edson (he passed aug2020) and "IBM'S MISSED OPPORTUNITY WITH THE INTERNET" (gone behind paywall but lives free at wayback machine) https://web.archive.org/web/20000124004147/http://www1.sjmercury.com/svtech/columns/gillmor/docs/dg092499.htm Also from wayback machine, some additional (IBM missed internet) references from Ed's website https://web.archive.org/web/20000115185349/http://www.edh.net/bungle.htm Ed and I transfer out to SJR on the west coast in 1977 ... and I work with Jim Gray and Vera Watson on original SQL/relational, System/R. Was able to do technology transfer ("under the radar while company was pre-occupied with next great new DBMS "EAGLE") to Endicott for SQL/DS. Then when "EAGLE" implodes, there was request for how fast could System/R be ported to MVS, eventually released as DB2 (originally for decision support *ONLY*). Also TYMSHARE provides the IBM Mainframe user group, "SHARE" with its VM370/CMS-based online computer conferencing system for free in AUG1976. I cut a deal with TYMSHARE to get a monthly tape dump of all VMSHARE files for putting up on internal network and systems (biggest problem were the lawyers over exposing internal employees to unfiltered customer information). archives here: http://vm.marist.edu/~vmshare -- virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970