Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #656693

Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation

From	Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Subject	Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation
Date	2024-09-02 08:26 +0200
Message-ID	<ljl42mFrt9qU2@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
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Am Sonntag000001, 01.09.2024 um 12:18 schrieb Richard Hachel:
> Le 01/09/2024 à 08:27, Thomas Heger a écrit :
>> Am Samstag000031, 31.08.2024 um 09:05 schrieb Richard Hachel:
>>
>> This is the set of all places, which can use the same kind of clocks.
>>
>> They do not need to show the same time, however, but need to tick at 
>> the same rate.
> 
> This is called a relativistic reference frame.
> 
> All clocks there have the same chronotropy: that is to say, they turn at 
> the same speed.
> 
> I do not use the term reference frame like physicists, because the term 
> reference frame is an abstract invention, a verbal nothing, a pure 
> nothingness due to the fact that each point of the reference frame has 
> its own clock, certainly isochronotropic with respect to neighboring 
> clocks, which will never "absolutely" mark the same time as the 
> neighboring time on which it will always advance by t=x/c (and vice 
> versa) during a universal synchronization of type M.
> 


I use the observation, that clocks around the Earth surface tick at the 
same rate, while they don't tick at the same rate at different altitudes.

This is actually a continuus effect, which extends 'outwards' in space.

In space we see past events only and the further away the longer ago.

The future is not visible, mainly because future comes later than what 
we call 'now'.

This 'now' is called 'hyperplane of the present' in relativity lingo.

In a typical spacetime diagram it is a horizontal plane, while the axis 
of time points up vertically.

This axis of time is surrounded by our own futur light cone.

Now we have a consistent picture, which describes, what we mean by 'now'.

To reach such events now along the hyperplane of the present from our 
own position is, of course, not possible.

But we could assume something hypothetical, which could and moves with 
infinite velocity.

Since light isn't THAT fast (though fast), we need to compensate the 
difference 'by hand'.

This is simple: since our signals actually move along our future light 
cone, we need to subtract the delay and would reach a point on that 
hyperplane of the present.

If we receive a signal, we would need to add the delay, because that 
would 'raise' a point from our own past light-cone to that hyperplane.


TH

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The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-08-23 11:15 +0000
  Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-08-23 15:03 +0300
    Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-08-23 12:20 +0000
      Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-08-23 16:01 +0200
        Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-08-29 22:15 +0000
          Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-08-30 15:20 +0200
            Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-08-30 15:43 +0200
            Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-08-30 16:31 +0000
              Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-08-31 08:30 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-08-31 07:05 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-08-31 22:11 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-08-31 23:01 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-08-31 21:14 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-01 02:26 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-01 11:58 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-01 12:12 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-09-01 11:25 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-01 14:29 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-09-01 14:13 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-01 19:21 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-09-01 17:25 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-01 19:53 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-09-01 17:38 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-09-01 11:22 -0700
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-09-01 11:56 -0700
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-09-01 12:29 -0700
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-02 01:41 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-09-01 19:30 -0700
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-02 05:29 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-01 19:42 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-09-01 20:29 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-02 01:39 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-02 14:00 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-03 01:04 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-03 09:07 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-03 11:25 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-03 09:28 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-02 19:24 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-03 10:03 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-03 17:21 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-03 20:20 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-03 20:32 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-03 21:08 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-03 21:24 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-03 23:20 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-04 00:32 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-04 21:38 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-04 22:24 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-04 22:54 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-04 23:02 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-05 14:25 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-04 23:23 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-05 14:25 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-05 14:15 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-05 22:19 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-05 20:31 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-05 22:57 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-05 23:03 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-09-06 15:21 +0300
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-06 15:44 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-05 17:26 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-09-06 12:31 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-06 12:52 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-06 11:15 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-09-07 09:30 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-06 11:31 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-09-07 09:41 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-06 11:41 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-02 14:42 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-01 12:25 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-01 12:31 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-09-01 08:28 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-01 10:18 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-09-01 16:21 +0300
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-01 21:47 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-09-03 13:57 +0300
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-03 11:49 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-09-02 08:26 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-02 12:16 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-02 14:29 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-09-03 07:53 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-09-04 09:24 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-04 14:05 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-09-05 08:44 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-02 12:27 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-02 12:36 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-01 14:34 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-08-31 12:29 +0200
            Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-08-30 16:37 +0000
              Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-08-30 20:27 +0200
      Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-08-24 10:26 +0300
  Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-08-23 21:51 +0200
    Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-08-23 21:13 +0000
      Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation hitlong@yahoo.com (gharnagel) - 2024-08-24 02:26 +0000
        Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-08-24 11:28 +0000
          Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation hitlong@yahoo.com (gharnagel) - 2024-08-24 13:28 +0000
          Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-08-24 22:11 +0200
            Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-08-24 20:26 +0000
              Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-08-25 13:17 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-08-25 13:38 +0200
          Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-08-25 09:30 +0200
        Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-08-31 23:05 +0000
          Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-01 13:47 +0200
            Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-09-01 14:04 +0000
              Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-01 20:09 +0200
      Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-08-25 11:45 +0300
  Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-03 11:23 +0200

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