Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #582108

Re: Annotated version of SRT

From	Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Subject	Re: Annotated version of SRT
Date	2022-04-07 07:08 +0200
Message-ID	<jb79uiFu5dsU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	(17 earlier) <t2etbm$h0v$2@gioia.aioe.org> <jb25m5FkfU1@mid.individual.net> <t2hlal$11g6$1@gioia.aioe.org> <jb4o63Ff4qfU1@mid.individual.net> <t2k5rp$8lj$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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Am 06.04.2022 um 15:50 schrieb Odd Bodkin:
> Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> wrote:
>> Am 05.04.2022 um 16:56 schrieb Odd Bodkin:
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> No. You simply don't understand how this works. Some people, when
>>>>>>>>>>> they don't understand something, tend to blame everyone but themselves
>>>>>>>>>>> for this. I cannot fix this problem for you.
>>>>>>>>>> I understand, that magnetic field and electric field have different
>>>>>>>>>> effects, hence are different things, even if related.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So: I cannot subtract 1 amp from 1 Volt, because that does not make much
>>>>>>>>>> more sense then subtraction weigth from pressure.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You don't subtract 1 A from 1 V.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Electric field strength (commonly called 'E') was subtracted from
>>>>>>>> magnetic field strength (commonly called 'H') by Einstein.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> E has [V/m] as units and H has [A/m].
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How about in cgs units? You know about those?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you really want to defend the same idocities as Einstein?
>>>>>
>>>>> I don’t think systems of units are idiocies.
>>>>
>>>> Not the system of units, of course, but the use of these units.
>>>
>>> This may come as a shock to you, but combining quantities of the same units
>>> and same transformation properties is commonplace in physics. For example,
>>> the combination of angular kinetic energy and translational kinetic energy
>>> in ordinary energy conservation scenarios.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> The cgs system boild the fields down to 'force', which is measured in
>>>> 'dyne'.
>>>>
>>>> This force was meant as real mechanical force like with what we measure
>>>> weight, for instance.
>>>>
>>>> This was justified by measuring a force inside the measuring device,
>>>> which ultimately was a mechanical force.
>>>>
>>>> (Einstein actually wrote so, when he wrote about the connection of an
>>>> electron to a spring balance).
>>>>
>>>> Now the same units 'dyne' are not appropriate for electrical fields of
>>>> different kind, because the dyne is 'not electric'.
>>>>
>>>> The units simply ignore this different origins of the fields and their
>>>> different nature.
>>>
>>> I think you’re going to be generally flummoxed by the realization that
>>> there is one electromagnetic field, not physically distinct electric and
>>> magnetic fields.
>>
>>
>> I know magnets and I know electric fields. These fields do not behave
>> equal, at least not in the static realm.
>>
>> They may be ultimately two manifestations of the same thing, but still
>> these static manifestations behave different.
>
> Well, sure. For one thing, currents are the source of one, but as you know,
> whether a charge is stationary or in motion is an accident of choice of
> reference frame.


The magnetic field is NOT caused by currents!!!
Currents in a coil can cause a magnetic field, but the field itself does 
not require any current.

Fields are in general properties of space. So we need to assign 
properties to points, which are not material objects.

The material objects are actually certain patterns, which these 
properties could build, but the points themselves are immaterial, but 
still can have properties, which we call 'field-strength-vectors'.

Also the electric field does not require material objects of any kind, 
whether flowing through a wire or static.




> Horizontal behaviors are often different than vertical behaviors as well,
> but this doesn’t mean that horizontal and vertical displacements are
> incommensurate, nor does it mean that horizontal displacements cannot be
> combined with vertical displacements because of a clash of units.


Well, yes. On Earth we have a gravitational field and it does in fact 
make a difference, if you move horizontal or upwards.

This gravitational field has a lot of influence on other things, which 
have no mass, like e.g. time or light.

>> If we now use the features of one of these manifestions and apply them
>> to the other one, we find, these description does not match.
>>
>> Magnetic fields behave inertial and make things spin, while electric
>> fields push or pull other charged objects, what is not quite the same.
>>
>>
>> Your statement is not entirely wrong, but is actually a disprove of one
>> of Einstein's main assumptions:
>>
>> The electric field itself was modelled by Einstein by means of
>> electrons, which were assumed as very tiny balls, to which a certain
>> amount of charge was added.
>>
>> But if electric and magnetic fields are actually only one thing, than
>> how would you like to modell the electric charge of an electron?
>>
>
> The same way. Look at Maxwell’s equations. Gauss’s law has a charge density
> as a source. Ampere’s law has a charge current density as a source.

And the universe has a 'big-bang' as a source.

But does such a source in an equation make the source a real material 
object?

Th

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Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-03 08:07 +0200
  Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-03 00:43 -0700
  Re: Annotated version of SRT Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-03 12:38 +0000
    Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-04 07:14 +0200
      Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-04 01:44 -0700
        Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-05 08:16 +0200
      Re: Annotated version of SRT Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-04 13:55 +0000
        Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-05 08:25 +0200
          Re: Annotated version of SRT Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-05 02:46 -0400
            Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-06 07:40 +0200
          Re: Annotated version of SRT Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-05 14:56 +0000
            Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-06 07:53 +0200
              Re: Annotated version of SRT Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-06 13:50 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-04-06 07:01 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-06 14:18 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-04-06 08:45 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-07 07:08 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-07 13:25 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-08 07:53 +0200
  Re: Annotated version of SRT Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-03 15:42 -0400
    Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-04 07:20 +0200
      Re: Annotated version of SRT nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-04-04 13:10 +0200
      Re: Annotated version of SRT Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-04 13:55 +0000
        Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-05 08:35 +0200
          Re: Annotated version of SRT nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-04-05 10:28 +0200
            Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-04-05 03:15 -0700
              Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-06 08:01 +0200
          Re: Annotated version of SRT Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-05 14:56 +0000
            Re: Annotated version of SRT Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-05 14:03 -0400
              Re: Annotated version of SRT Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-05 18:06 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-07 07:48 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-07 13:25 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-08 07:59 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Mitch Yamaguchi <sdvw@aozrihai.wg> - 2022-04-07 19:23 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT thor stoneman <consequently7990662@gmail.com> - 2022-04-07 14:10 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-08 07:56 +0200
          Re: Annotated version of SRT Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-05 13:58 -0400
            Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-06 08:22 +0200
              Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-07 07:45 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-07 01:20 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-08 08:14 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-07 23:47 -0700
              Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-07 01:06 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-08 08:40 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-07 23:56 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-08 20:50 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-08 19:05 -0400
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-09 08:08 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-08 23:51 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-09 13:02 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Coke Hishikawa <uhva@blseummh.nm> - 2022-04-09 13:21 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-09 12:18 -0400
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-10 09:14 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-04-10 11:29 +0300
                Re: Annotated version of SRT nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-04-10 12:28 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-04-10 16:54 +0300
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-11 00:50 -0400
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-04-10 21:52 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-11 07:42 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-11 11:01 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2022-04-11 05:50 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-04-11 18:20 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-04-11 09:48 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2022-04-11 09:54 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-04-11 12:32 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-11 18:39 -0400
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-11 12:38 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Python <python@example.invalid> - 2022-04-10 13:06 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-09 07:48 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Python <python@example.invalid> - 2022-04-09 14:36 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-04-09 06:18 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-10 08:49 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-04-09 23:52 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Python <python@example.invalid> - 2022-04-10 12:54 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Python <python@example.invalid> - 2022-04-10 12:51 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-04-10 05:02 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-10 21:04 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Python <python@example.invalid> - 2022-04-10 22:08 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-04-10 21:20 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-11 07:48 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2022-04-11 08:43 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-04-11 13:55 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-11 21:09 +0200
            Re: Annotated version of SRT Coke Hishikawa <uhva@blseummh.nm> - 2022-04-09 11:33 +0000
              Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-09 13:08 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-04-10 11:54 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-10 21:10 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-11 12:43 -0700
      Re: Annotated version of SRT Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-04 21:02 -0400
  Re: Annotated version of SRT "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-04-03 22:31 +0200
  Re: Annotated version of SRT nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-04-04 13:10 +0200

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