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Re: Smokers are smarter, I say.

Cross-posted to 6 groups.

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On 4/18/17, 2:09 PM, in article 180420171709208387%nospam@nospam.invalid,
"nospam" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <D517EAD6.9F310%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit
> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> 
>>>>>> They have an outdated file system (which is going to change soon,
>>>>> 
>>>>> hfs+ is not in any way slow. benchmarks are consistent with the maximum
>>>>> data rate of the interface.
>>>> 
>>>> Would like to see those.
>>> 
>>> easily done with any disk benchmarking utility
>> 
>> I look forward to it! When you have them please share.
> 
> i use blackmagic. there are others.

Cool. Look forward to you showing it.

>>>> From what I understood it hit bottlenecks if you
>>>> had multiple processes / threads all working to read / write.
>>> 
>>> that is a separate issue.
>>  
>> The fact the file system handles this poorly is very much tied to the file
>> system. :)
> 
> it's not normally an issue.

Which implies you see it can sometimes be one. OK.
 
> there are always edge cases, even with apfs, zfs or whatever file
> system you want to use.

The idea that HFS+ is outdated is pretty clear... and it is good Apple is
moving to APFS. But how much of the slowness is caused by the file system is
not clear.
 
>>>>>> FINALLY)
>>>>>> running of absurdly slow drives (5400 rpm).
>>>>> 
>>>>> those are also not slow, and can easily be replaced if desired.
>>>> 
>>>> That is very slow. Who else sells machines with drives that slow.
>>> 
>>> microsoft surface studio ships with a 5400 rpm drive.
>> 
>> Looking it up seems they do -- but tied to a SSD, similar to the Fusion
>> drives Apple uses (though not the same).
>>  
>>> plenty of other systems do.
>> 
>> Amy desktops?
> 
> lots of them

Look forward to the examples. I could be wrong on this...

> drive makers are making mostly 5400 rpm drives for cost and ssds for
> speed. 7200 rpm drives don't represent a good deal anymore.
> 
>>>> Try a Mac
>>>> with a hard drive vs. one with a Flash drive. The speed difference is
>>>> pretty amazing.
>>> 
>>> that's not exclusive to macs.
>> 
>> Of course not. But what other system comes with a 5400 rpm drive (alone).
> 
> many. 

But none you can show?

>>> ssd is faster no matter what the platform
>>> (unless a hard drive can saturate the interface).
>>> 
>>>>> that's not a limitation of the mac.
>>>> 
>>>> You can buy a higher end one with a faster drive or a Fusion drive or do it
>>>> after-market, but, yes, it is a weakness of the iMac line.
>>> 
>>> it's not a weakness at all.
>> 
>> The fact you can replace it does not make it not a weakness. Heck, the fact
>> you suggested such a fix demonstrates you know it IS a weakness.
> 
> it's not a weakness. it's a design choice. everything has tradeoffs.

Ah, it is not a weakness but you suggest a fix for it anyway.

What?

>>>>>>>> But, sure, I have played with disk
>>>>>>>> light or things similar to it years ago... never found the need. Not
>>>>>>>> used it in years.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> no need for that at all.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Or, at best, the situations where there is a need are very, very few.
>>>>> 
>>>>> as in none. 
>>>> 
>>>> There is certainly a market for those who want it. And their are Apple
>>>> supplied tools to show it (even Activity Monitor).
>>> 
>>> there is *constant* disk activity, for all sorts of reasons. it's
>>> meaningless. it offers no useful information.
>> 
>> So Apple added it to Activity Monitor for no reason? Of course not. And it
>> does show amount read / write per second.
> 
> activity monitor is for diagnostics, not normal routine use.

It is during diagnostics when you would likely find such information useful.
Sure.

>> Really comes down to YOU find no use of value in it. I am OK with that.
> 
> 99.9% of the world finds no use for it.

Well, most users find little use for most of the diagnostic tools on their
computer (though I think your percentage is high, whatever).


-- 
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

<https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>

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Re: Smokers are smarter, I say. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-18 17:09 -0400
  Re: Smokers are smarter, I say. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-18 14:13 -0700

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