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Re: "Borrowing" code

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Novice wrote:
> Lew wrote
> > Novice wrote:
> >> Exactly! This is why it seemed to me that it might be okay to
> >> "borrow" such examples. It seemed self-evident that someone writing a
> >> tutorial meant for it to be used in developing code. 
> > 
> > On the contrary, it is obvious that that is not the intention. A
> > tutorial by definition is meant for use in learning how to develop
> > code. It is almost certainly not meant for use in developing code.
> > 
> >> I wasn't contemplating stealing the full source code for Windows
> >> here, just using a small class or two that someone had figured out
> >> and displayed publicly.
> > 
> > Public display does not confer right to use!
> > 
> In a legal sense, sure. Still,  if someone posts a recipe for chili on a 
> cooking page, it seems to me the intent is to offer it to the world as in 
> "Here's how I make a great chili in case you want to do the same." A code 
> example seems like the same thing to me. 

You still don't get it, do you?  The "legal sense" is what you asked about!

The "legal sense" is also what will bite you in the ass if you are not 
responsible for it.

Why have you suddenly in mid-thread lost interest in the "legal sense"?

Making chili is not copyright infringement. The printed form of the recipe is 
what is copyright, not the recipe itself. The situation is entirely non-
analogous.

The code example is NOT the same. Get over "it seems to me" and deal with 
reality. If you are such the expert, why did you ask the question in the first 
place?

> I suppose a code example could just be someone showing off, as in "I 
> wrote this clever bit of code so I'm putting this code on a public web 
> page so that you can see how clever I am. But don't you dare try to use 
> it because if I find out you did, I'll send my lawyers after you and make 
> a truckload of money!" But that doesn't all that likely to me. 

Another "seems to me". It might not seem like standing on train tracks is 
dangerous, but do step off before the train arrives anyway.

The question you asked, and we answered, is if taking code from a tutorial 
or other sources constitutes copyright infringement. We have told you that yes, 
in many cases it is. Now you attempt to deny this fact (fact!) on the basis 
of "it seems to you" that it shouldn't infringe. Disregard the law at your own 
peril, dude.

> > Besides, Arved's advice really, really applies here. So what if you
> > *can* copy some code into yours? The question you should ask yourself
> > is if you *should*. 

A point you obstinately refuse to acknowledge.

> > The term for copying code snippets from outside sources (like
> > tutorials on the Web) into your code is "cargo-cult programming".
> > 
> > I have seen many tragically laughable results in real-life projects
> > from this style of coding.
> > 
> > Now, CPE (copy-paste-edit) is a different matter, properly employed.
> > 
> 
> I totally agree with that. If you don't know how it works, you can't fix 
> it if it doesn't work. You also don't know if it is going to introduce 
> unexpected side-effects to your code or perform horribly because the 
> developer of the code was only trying to show a way to do something, not 
> necessarily the most efficient way. Etc. etc.
> 
> For what it's worth, I've contacted the author of the classes I've seen 
> and received his encouragement to use the classes, even for commercial 
> projects, but to please credit him in the source code. He has not asked 
> for any money whatsoever. I was not specific about which classes I wanted 
> and referred only to a significant number of examples that he has 
> published online so his permission seems to be a carte blanche 
> authorization to use anything at that website. 

Get it in writing.

> Also, since I don't actually LIKE using borrowed code - I really would 
> rather write my own - I am studying his code and developing my own 
> solution that will hopefully use his concept but do it in my own way.

Now THAT, as we've said upthread a few times, *is* the purpose of tutorials.

> In a moment of weakness, I was tempted to just borrow the code (with 
> attribution) and move on to other tasks due to time pressure so I asked 
> my question to try to determine the consequences of doing so.

And despite many good answers to that question, you take issue with the truth.

In matters of law, "it seems to me that should be different" will not excuse 
you from liability. 

We've given you the advice. The consequences of following it or not are on you.

-- 
Lew

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Thread

"Borrowing" code Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-16 19:50 +0000
  Re: "Borrowing" code glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-02-16 20:28 +0000
  Re: "Borrowing" code Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-16 12:59 -0800
    Re: "Borrowing" code Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-02-16 13:51 -0800
      Re: "Borrowing" code Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-02-16 15:03 -0800
        Re: "Borrowing" code Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-17 01:21 -0800
          Re: "Borrowing" code Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-02-17 11:29 -0800
            Re: "Borrowing" code Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-17 11:51 -0800
              Re: "Borrowing" code Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-17 17:50 -0400
                Re: "Borrowing" code glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-02-17 22:36 +0000
                Re: "Borrowing" code Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-17 23:27 -0800
                Re: "Borrowing" code glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-02-18 15:11 +0000
                Re: "Borrowing" code Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-18 10:28 -0800
                Re: "Borrowing" code glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-02-18 20:08 +0000
                Re: "Borrowing" code Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-18 16:46 -0400
                Re: "Borrowing" code BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-20 01:58 -0700
                Re: "Borrowing" code Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-18 13:03 -0400
                Re: "Borrowing" code Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-18 10:31 -0800
                Re: "Borrowing" code glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-02-18 20:15 +0000
                Re: "Borrowing" code Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-02-19 19:46 -0800
                Re: "Borrowing" code Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-02-19 23:08 -0600
                Re: "Borrowing" code Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-02-20 09:17 -0800
                Re: "Borrowing" code Mark <i@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.invalid> - 2012-02-20 09:32 +0000
                Re: "Borrowing" code Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-02-20 01:45 -0800
                Re: "Borrowing" code BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-20 08:35 -0700
                Re: "Borrowing" code Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-02-20 03:59 -0600
            Re: "Borrowing" code Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-17 17:00 -0500
              Re: "Borrowing" code Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2012-02-17 16:08 -0600
                Re: "Borrowing" code Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-17 17:14 -0500
            Re: "Borrowing" code George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2012-02-17 18:00 -0500
              Re: "Borrowing" code Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-17 21:54 -0400
          Re: "Borrowing" code Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-17 17:10 -0500
            Re: "Borrowing" code glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-02-17 22:42 +0000
              Re: "Borrowing" code Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-02-17 15:22 -0800
                Re: "Borrowing" code glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-02-18 01:37 +0000
                Re: "Borrowing" code Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-02-19 19:51 -0800
      Re: "Borrowing" code Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-16 23:37 +0000
      Re: "Borrowing" code Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-17 01:26 -0800
    Re: "Borrowing" code Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-16 19:36 -0400
      Re: "Borrowing" code Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-02-16 22:15 -0600
      Re: "Borrowing" code Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-17 01:41 -0800
    Re: "Borrowing" code Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-16 23:36 +0000
      Re: "Borrowing" code Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-16 18:42 -0500
  Re: "Borrowing" code BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-16 15:19 -0700
    Re: "Borrowing" code Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-16 23:50 +0000
      Re: "Borrowing" code Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-17 01:57 -0800
        Re: "Borrowing" code Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-17 17:09 +0000
          Re: "Borrowing" code glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2012-02-17 18:45 +0000
            [OT] Harry Potter copyright claims (Was: "Borrowing" code) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-17 11:00 -0800
              Re: [OT] Harry Potter copyright claims (Was: "Borrowing" code) Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-02-17 11:36 -0800
            Re: "Borrowing" code Mark <i@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.invalid> - 2012-02-20 09:41 +0000
          Re: "Borrowing" code Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-17 10:34 -0800
          Re: "Borrowing" code Bent C Dalager <bcd@pvv.ntnu.no> - 2012-02-18 00:08 +0000
  Re: "Borrowing" code Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2012-02-16 18:14 -0500
  Re: "Borrowing" code Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-16 18:37 -0500
    Re: "Borrowing" code Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-02-16 17:39 -0800
  Re: "Borrowing" code Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-02-16 20:34 -0500
  Re: "Borrowing" code Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-02-16 18:01 -0800
    Re: "Borrowing" code Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-16 21:18 -0500
    Re: "Borrowing" code Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-02-16 20:26 -0800
    Re: "Borrowing" code Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-02-16 20:32 -0800
    Re: "Borrowing" code BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-17 00:25 -0700
    Re: "Borrowing" code Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-17 02:01 -0800
    Re: "Borrowing" code Mark <i@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.invalid> - 2012-02-17 11:36 +0000
  Was: "Borrowing" code -  Links for budding copyright lawyers Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2012-02-17 17:29 -0500
  Re: "Borrowing" code Novice <novice@example..com> - 2012-02-20 19:22 +0000

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