Path: csiph.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail From: Maximus Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,alt.atheism Subject: Re: Atheism is a belief, it's not a science. Date: Wed, 1 May 2024 01:01:01 +1000 Lines: 139 Message-ID: References: <662D3C6E.73F1@ix.netcom.com> <662F2428.72E6@ix.netcom.com> <07v03j96gcmt89d6d7j7ae62e5cb5qkagu@4ax.com> <45o13jlkp7rsi2kkqsbtnpmmci33f7j544@4ax.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: individual.net dn6OybdBZzGvzRh/yqRE2wjoe54v1YguB7rvJldO6fKtUoUjSj Cancel-Lock: sha1:DPdF6z5w05QU0wa9j5pwLLAOSJs= sha256:eX1IuhSO7nxnSNkcJBb/VW0wwZPxZfpcYRZ56nBQ2oU= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/91.0 SeaMonkey/2.53.18.2 In-Reply-To: Xref: csiph.com sci.physics.relativity:653244 sci.physics:887049 alt.atheism:3370509 Attila wrote: > On Tue, 30 Apr 2024 22:57:53 +1000, Maximus > in alt.atheism with message-id > wrote: > >> Attila wrote: >>> On Tue, 30 Apr 2024 21:43:47 +1000, Maximus >>> in alt.atheism with message-id >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Attila wrote: >>>>> On Tue, 30 Apr 2024 18:18:28 +1000, Maximus >>>>> in alt.atheism with message-id >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Attila wrote: >>>>>>> On Tue, 30 Apr 2024 11:59:25 +1000, Maximus >>>>>>> in alt.atheism with message-id >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Attila wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Sun, 28 Apr 2024 21:38:00 -0700, The Starmaker >>>>>>>>> in alt.atheism with message-id >>>>>>>>> <662F2428.72E6@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The Starmaker wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Atheism is a belief, it's not a science. >>>>>>>>>> Religious beliefs and Atheism beliefs are both on the same level of ...beliefs. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Atheist are confident that there is no God, as Religions are confident that there is a God. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> They are are both on the same level of ...beliefs. >>>>>>>>> Not really. Theists postulate the existence of something >>>>>>>>> without any supporting evidence for that existence. >>>>>>>> I disagree. billions of believers and personal testimony is evidence. >>>>>>> Personal testimony is never evidence >>>>>> any court would disagree with you >>>>> It is well known that personal testimony is the poorest kind >>>>> of evidence. >>>> maybe, but still evidence. and it's relative to numbers. if twenty pp >>>> say they saw me run down a pedestrian in my car, that carries more >>>> weight than if just one person says it. >>> I agree - it is evidence. It just isn't very useful >>> evidence. >>> >>>>> The value of eyewitnesses: >>>>> >>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJG698U2Mvo >>>>> >>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubNF9QNEQLA >>>>> >>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ahg6qcgoay4 >>>>> >>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bnnmWYI0lM >>>> I'm not going to watch all those, sorry. (see comment below) >>> Any one will do. They all show what you see may not be >>> reality. >>> >>>>>>> since there is no way >>>>>>> to support it. >>>>>>> As far as the "belief of billions" is >>>>>>> concerned there are hundreds of different beliefs in there >>>>>>> and they can't all be correct. >>>>>> I was referring to Xtianity and Islam primarily >>>>> How about Hindu? >>>> about 1.2 billion. but Christians and Islamists make up over 50% of all >>>> religious faiths. >>> So what? That doesn't mean any of them are valid. >> no, but your point is there's no evidence. I say it's evidence the >> beliefs could be valid. > Or not. There is no actual evidence that would convince > someone either way. > >>>>> There are hundreds of others. In fact >>>>> there are many, many different Christian beliefs. >>>> yes. I'm just saying it's not as you say that there's no evidence. for >>>> example believers spend a lot of money in support of their faith. just >>>> near where I am there's a 7th day Adventist complex worth many millions >>>> of dollars. also many intelligent ppl have religious beliefs. in fact >>>> theists vastly outnumber us. you can't just dismiss such things as being >>>> no evidence that there may be some validity to their beliefs. >>> Or not. There is exactly the same support either way. >>> >>> >>>> but at the >>>> end of the day, I look at what the beliefs actually are. when one does >>>> that, it's not so difficult to dismiss them as nonsense. eg. xtians >>>> believe they will live in mansions, and walk on streets paved with gold >>>> in some god adoring afterlife, and muslims believe they will get 70 >>>> virgins if they die as martyrs. >>> Most religions have common factors - rewards for believers >>> and painful punishment for non-believers. >>> Basically there is no actual supporting evidence either way >>> for anything involving religion. That is why faith was >>> invented. Faith is belief without evidence - for those who >>> believe in such. >> no, faith is belief without proof > Proof - evidence - either way it is the same thing. No > facts. no. evidence is not proof. evidence is just something that supports a conclusion. > > A fact is a statement that can be verified. It can be proven > to be true or false through objective evidence. No religion > has this. yes they do. Muhammad is an historical person, as is Jesus > >> . the gospels for example are a basis >> for Xtian faith > Or for any other religion. None of them have anything > beyond faith. Your gospels are accepted as being true > without any supporting evidence. the gospels are evidence for the events they contain. it's irrelevant whether those events are true or not. they are still evidence. but some things in the gospels are known to be factual. Bart Ehrman is a (very) good authority on this. -- “Atheism is the birth right of all human, remember that!”- hhyapster 7.4.23 "Christian beliefs fail against reason, facts, and knowledge" "Religion is not about truth, it's about lifestyle" "God is a convenient explanation for what man does not understand. The less that's inexplicable, the less need for a 'God' explanation." "The problem with theism is that it never remains within the realm of belief, but invariably proceeds to assertion"