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Re: Uncertainty is why science can never know exactly

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  Re: Uncertainty is why science can never know exactly The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2023-03-20 19:45 -0700
    Re: Uncertainty is why science can never know exactly Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-03-20 22:22 -0700
      Re: Uncertainty is why science can never know exactly "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-03-21 14:26 -0700
        Re: Uncertainty is why science can never know exactly The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2023-03-22 10:28 -0700
          Re: Uncertainty is why science can never know exactly The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2023-03-22 16:13 -0700
        Re: Uncertainty is why science can never know exactly JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2023-03-22 10:57 -0700
          Re: Uncertainty is why science can never know exactly "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-03-22 16:37 -0700
            Re: Uncertainty is why science can never know exactly JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2023-03-22 19:48 -0700
              Re: Uncertainty is why science can never know exactly "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-03-22 21:12 -0700

#604876 — Re: Uncertainty is why science can never know exactly

Sylvia Else wrote:
> 
> On 21-Mar-23 11:25 am, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 11:31:08 AM UTC-7, Jim Pennino wrote:
> >> mitchr...@gmail.com <mitchr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> QM in its central principle shows how
> >>> uncertain science has been. Einstein
> >>> knew QM would take a correction...
> >>> How can we get anywhere if
> >>> measurements are so uncertain?
> >>> And he had a God. God was his God.
> >>> Personal and impersonal.
> >>>
> >>> Mitchell Raemsch
> >> The measured value of the gravitational constant, which is one of the
> >> most difficult values to measure, has a current uncertainty of 46 parts
> >> per million or 0.0046%.
> >
> > Doesnt science need to know that constant exact before you could
> > predict how close to certain it is.
> 
> Why would you think that? Get out a metre rule and measure the height of
> your desk. You know the result isn't exact, so you don't know the
> precise height of your desk. But you can still look at the scale of your
> metre rule and conclude that you know the desk height to within a
> millimetre, or about 1 part in 750.
> >
> > The uncertainty principle of QM shows how
> > uncertain science has been.
> 
> The uncertainty principle relates to how the universe itself works, not
> to our inability to measure it precisely.
> 
> Sylvia.

How the uncertainty principle universe itself works has made your ability to measure it precisely, ineffective. 

It's in the cards.

-- 
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
 to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, and challenge
 the unchallengeable.

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#604889

On Tuesday, 21 March 2023 at 03:44:57 UTC+1, The Starmaker wrote:
> Sylvia Else wrote: 
> > 
> > On 21-Mar-23 11:25 am, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: 
> > > On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 11:31:08 AM UTC-7, Jim Pennino wrote: 
> > >> mitchr...@gmail.com <mitchr...@gmail.com> wrote: 
> > >>> QM in its central principle shows how 
> > >>> uncertain science has been. Einstein 
> > >>> knew QM would take a correction... 
> > >>> How can we get anywhere if 
> > >>> measurements are so uncertain? 
> > >>> And he had a God. God was his God. 
> > >>> Personal and impersonal. 
> > >>> 
> > >>> Mitchell Raemsch 
> > >> The measured value of the gravitational constant, which is one of the 
> > >> most difficult values to measure, has a current uncertainty of 46 parts 
> > >> per million or 0.0046%. 
> > > 
> > > Doesnt science need to know that constant exact before you could 
> > > predict how close to certain it is. 
> > 
> > Why would you think that? Get out a metre rule and measure the height of 
> > your desk. You know the result isn't exact, so you don't know the 
> > precise height of your desk. But you can still look at the scale of your 
> > metre rule and conclude that you know the desk height to within a 
> > millimetre, or about 1 part in 750. 
> > > 
> > > The uncertainty principle of QM shows how 
> > > uncertain science has been. 
> > 
> > The uncertainty principle relates to how the universe itself works, not 
> > to our inability to measure it precisely. 
> > 
> > Sylvia. 
> 
> How the uncertainty principle universe itself works has made 

Stop fucking. "uncertainty principle" is how
physicists work, the universe has nothing to do it.

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#604924

On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 10:22:44 PM UTC-7, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
> On Tuesday, 21 March 2023 at 03:44:57 UTC+1, The Starmaker wrote: 
> > Sylvia Else wrote: 
> > > 
> > > On 21-Mar-23 11:25 am, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: 
> > > > On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 11:31:08 AM UTC-7, Jim Pennino wrote: 
> > > >> mitchr...@gmail.com <mitchr...@gmail.com> wrote: 
> > > >>> QM in its central principle shows how 
> > > >>> uncertain science has been. Einstein 
> > > >>> knew QM would take a correction... 
> > > >>> How can we get anywhere if 
> > > >>> measurements are so uncertain? 
> > > >>> And he had a God. God was his God. 
> > > >>> Personal and impersonal. 
> > > >>> 
> > > >>> Mitchell Raemsch 
> > > >> The measured value of the gravitational constant, which is one of the 
> > > >> most difficult values to measure, has a current uncertainty of 46 parts 
> > > >> per million or 0.0046%. 
> > > > 
> > > > Doesnt science need to know that constant exact before you could 
> > > > predict how close to certain it is. 
> > > 
> > > Why would you think that? Get out a metre rule and measure the height of 
> > > your desk. You know the result isn't exact, so you don't know the 
> > > precise height of your desk. But you can still look at the scale of your 
> > > metre rule and conclude that you know the desk height to within a 
> > > millimetre, or about 1 part in 750. 
> > > > 
> > > > The uncertainty principle of QM shows how 
> > > > uncertain science has been. 
> > > 
> > > The uncertainty principle relates to how the universe itself works, not 
> > > to our inability to measure it precisely. 
> > > 
> > > Sylvia. 
> > 
> > How the uncertainty principle universe itself works has made
> Stop fucking. "uncertainty principle" is how 
> physicists work, the universe has nothing to do it.

The uncertainty principle is about the limitations 
of scientific measurement and why they
do not ever go accurate.

Mitchell Raemsch

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#605010

mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 10:22:44 PM UTC-7, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 21 March 2023 at 03:44:57 UTC+1, The Starmaker wrote:
> > > Sylvia Else wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On 21-Mar-23 11:25 am, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 11:31:08 AM UTC-7, Jim Pennino wrote:
> > > > >> mitchr...@gmail.com <mitchr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >>> QM in its central principle shows how
> > > > >>> uncertain science has been. Einstein
> > > > >>> knew QM would take a correction...
> > > > >>> How can we get anywhere if
> > > > >>> measurements are so uncertain?
> > > > >>> And he had a God. God was his God.
> > > > >>> Personal and impersonal.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Mitchell Raemsch
> > > > >> The measured value of the gravitational constant, which is one of the
> > > > >> most difficult values to measure, has a current uncertainty of 46 parts
> > > > >> per million or 0.0046%.
> > > > >
> > > > > Doesnt science need to know that constant exact before you could
> > > > > predict how close to certain it is.
> > > >
> > > > Why would you think that? Get out a metre rule and measure the height of
> > > > your desk. You know the result isn't exact, so you don't know the
> > > > precise height of your desk. But you can still look at the scale of your
> > > > metre rule and conclude that you know the desk height to within a
> > > > millimetre, or about 1 part in 750.
> > > > >
> > > > > The uncertainty principle of QM shows how
> > > > > uncertain science has been.
> > > >
> > > > The uncertainty principle relates to how the universe itself works, not
> > > > to our inability to measure it precisely.
> > > >
> > > > Sylvia.
> > >
> > > How the uncertainty principle universe itself works has made
> > Stop fucking. "uncertainty principle" is how
> > physicists work, the universe has nothing to do it.
> 
> The uncertainty principle is about the limitations
> of scientific measurement and why they
> do not ever go accurate.
> 
> Mitchell Raemsch

The uncertainty principle (the I Don't Know Principle) is not
about the  limitations of measurements, it' about the
limitations of intelligence.

It begins with certaintly...but someone, somewhere moved the dial knob from certaintly to uncertainty.

So, when you read it..it reads 'uncertaintly'.

That is where the control knob is set at, 'uncertaintly'.





-- 
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
 to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, and challenge
 the unchallengeable.

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#605042

Jim Pennino wrote:
> 
> mitchr...@gmail.com <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> <snip crap>
> 
> > By science's central principle its very uncertainty is revealed.
> > Measurement can never go accurate.
> 
> Define accurate moron.
> 
> > Mitchell Raemsch

An accurate moron is an oxymoron.

-- 
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
 to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable,
and challenge
 the unchallengeable.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#605012

On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 2:26:12 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 10:22:44 PM UTC-7, Maciej Wozniak wrote: 
> > On Tuesday, 21 March 2023 at 03:44:57 UTC+1, The Starmaker wrote: 
> > > Sylvia Else wrote: 
> > > > 
> > > > On 21-Mar-23 11:25 am, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: 
> > > > > On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 11:31:08 AM UTC-7, Jim Pennino wrote: 
> > > > >> mitchr...@gmail.com <mitchr...@gmail.com> wrote: 
> > > > >>> QM in its central principle shows how 
> > > > >>> uncertain science has been. Einstein 
> > > > >>> knew QM would take a correction... 
> > > > >>> How can we get anywhere if 
> > > > >>> measurements are so uncertain? 
> > > > >>> And he had a God. God was his God. 
> > > > >>> Personal and impersonal. 
> > > > >>> 
> > > > >>> Mitchell Raemsch 
> > > > >> The measured value of the gravitational constant, which is one of the 
> > > > >> most difficult values to measure, has a current uncertainty of 46 parts 
> > > > >> per million or 0.0046%. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Doesnt science need to know that constant exact before you could 
> > > > > predict how close to certain it is. 
> > > > 
> > > > Why would you think that? Get out a metre rule and measure the height of 
> > > > your desk. You know the result isn't exact, so you don't know the 
> > > > precise height of your desk. But you can still look at the scale of your 
> > > > metre rule and conclude that you know the desk height to within a 
> > > > millimetre, or about 1 part in 750. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > The uncertainty principle of QM shows how 
> > > > > uncertain science has been. 
> > > > 
> > > > The uncertainty principle relates to how the universe itself works, not 
> > > > to our inability to measure it precisely. 
> > > > 
> > > > Sylvia. 
> > > 
> > > How the uncertainty principle universe itself works has made 
> > Stop fucking. "uncertainty principle" is how 
> > physicists work, the universe has nothing to do it.
> The uncertainty principle is about the limitations 
> of scientific measurement and why they 
> do not ever go accurate. 

That's what people thought at first but it goes deeper. Look up
e.g. "quantum eraser".

--
Jan

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#605054

On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 10:57:52 AM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 2:26:12 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: 
> > On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 10:22:44 PM UTC-7, Maciej Wozniak wrote: 
> > > On Tuesday, 21 March 2023 at 03:44:57 UTC+1, The Starmaker wrote: 
> > > > Sylvia Else wrote: 
> > > > > 
> > > > > On 21-Mar-23 11:25 am, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: 
> > > > > > On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 11:31:08 AM UTC-7, Jim Pennino wrote: 
> > > > > >> mitchr...@gmail.com <mitchr...@gmail.com> wrote: 
> > > > > >>> QM in its central principle shows how 
> > > > > >>> uncertain science has been. Einstein 
> > > > > >>> knew QM would take a correction... 
> > > > > >>> How can we get anywhere if 
> > > > > >>> measurements are so uncertain? 
> > > > > >>> And he had a God. God was his God. 
> > > > > >>> Personal and impersonal. 
> > > > > >>> 
> > > > > >>> Mitchell Raemsch 
> > > > > >> The measured value of the gravitational constant, which is one of the 
> > > > > >> most difficult values to measure, has a current uncertainty of 46 parts 
> > > > > >> per million or 0.0046%. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Doesnt science need to know that constant exact before you could 
> > > > > > predict how close to certain it is. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Why would you think that? Get out a metre rule and measure the height of 
> > > > > your desk. You know the result isn't exact, so you don't know the 
> > > > > precise height of your desk. But you can still look at the scale of your 
> > > > > metre rule and conclude that you know the desk height to within a 
> > > > > millimetre, or about 1 part in 750. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > The uncertainty principle of QM shows how 
> > > > > > uncertain science has been. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > The uncertainty principle relates to how the universe itself works, not 
> > > > > to our inability to measure it precisely. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Sylvia. 
> > > > 
> > > > How the uncertainty principle universe itself works has made 
> > > Stop fucking. "uncertainty principle" is how 
> > > physicists work, the universe has nothing to do it. 
> > The uncertainty principle is about the limitations 
> > of scientific measurement and why they 
> > do not ever go accurate.
> That's what people thought at first but it goes deeper. Look up 
> e.g. "quantum eraser". 
> 
> -- 
> Jan

What is your argument jan? If you believe in that
you should show why. There is no proof of that
theory. If you believe its proven then why?


Mitchell Raemsch

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#605069

On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 4:37:17 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 10:57:52 AM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: 
> > On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 2:26:12 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: 
> > > On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 10:22:44 PM UTC-7, Maciej Wozniak wrote: 
> > > > On Tuesday, 21 March 2023 at 03:44:57 UTC+1, The Starmaker wrote: 
> > > > > Sylvia Else wrote: 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On 21-Mar-23 11:25 am, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: 
> > > > > > > On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 11:31:08 AM UTC-7, Jim Pennino wrote: 
> > > > > > >> mitchr...@gmail.com <mitchr...@gmail.com> wrote: 
> > > > > > >>> QM in its central principle shows how 
> > > > > > >>> uncertain science has been. Einstein 
> > > > > > >>> knew QM would take a correction... 
> > > > > > >>> How can we get anywhere if 
> > > > > > >>> measurements are so uncertain? 
> > > > > > >>> And he had a God. God was his God. 
> > > > > > >>> Personal and impersonal. 
> > > > > > >>> 
> > > > > > >>> Mitchell Raemsch 
> > > > > > >> The measured value of the gravitational constant, which is one of the 
> > > > > > >> most difficult values to measure, has a current uncertainty of 46 parts 
> > > > > > >> per million or 0.0046%. 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Doesnt science need to know that constant exact before you could 
> > > > > > > predict how close to certain it is. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Why would you think that? Get out a metre rule and measure the height of 
> > > > > > your desk. You know the result isn't exact, so you don't know the 
> > > > > > precise height of your desk. But you can still look at the scale of your 
> > > > > > metre rule and conclude that you know the desk height to within a 
> > > > > > millimetre, or about 1 part in 750. 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > The uncertainty principle of QM shows how 
> > > > > > > uncertain science has been. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > The uncertainty principle relates to how the universe itself works, not 
> > > > > > to our inability to measure it precisely. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Sylvia. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > How the uncertainty principle universe itself works has made 
> > > > Stop fucking. "uncertainty principle" is how 
> > > > physicists work, the universe has nothing to do it. 
> > > The uncertainty principle is about the limitations 
> > > of scientific measurement and why they 
> > > do not ever go accurate. 
> > That's what people thought at first but it goes deeper. Look up 
> > e.g. "quantum eraser". 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Jan
> What is your argument jan? 

That unless we allow nonlocality, there are no hidden variables.
So there is nothing that we are merely "measuring inaccurately".
It goes deeper than that.

--
Jan

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#605075

On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 7:48:35 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 4:37:17 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: 
> > On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 10:57:52 AM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: 
> > > On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 2:26:12 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: 
> > > > On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 10:22:44 PM UTC-7, Maciej Wozniak wrote: 
> > > > > On Tuesday, 21 March 2023 at 03:44:57 UTC+1, The Starmaker wrote: 
> > > > > > Sylvia Else wrote: 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > On 21-Mar-23 11:25 am, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: 
> > > > > > > > On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 11:31:08 AM UTC-7, Jim Pennino wrote: 
> > > > > > > >> mitchr...@gmail.com <mitchr...@gmail.com> wrote: 
> > > > > > > >>> QM in its central principle shows how 
> > > > > > > >>> uncertain science has been. Einstein 
> > > > > > > >>> knew QM would take a correction... 
> > > > > > > >>> How can we get anywhere if 
> > > > > > > >>> measurements are so uncertain? 
> > > > > > > >>> And he had a God. God was his God. 
> > > > > > > >>> Personal and impersonal. 
> > > > > > > >>> 
> > > > > > > >>> Mitchell Raemsch 
> > > > > > > >> The measured value of the gravitational constant, which is one of the 
> > > > > > > >> most difficult values to measure, has a current uncertainty of 46 parts 
> > > > > > > >> per million or 0.0046%. 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Doesnt science need to know that constant exact before you could 
> > > > > > > > predict how close to certain it is. 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Why would you think that? Get out a metre rule and measure the height of 
> > > > > > > your desk. You know the result isn't exact, so you don't know the 
> > > > > > > precise height of your desk. But you can still look at the scale of your 
> > > > > > > metre rule and conclude that you know the desk height to within a 
> > > > > > > millimetre, or about 1 part in 750. 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > The uncertainty principle of QM shows how 
> > > > > > > > uncertain science has been. 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > The uncertainty principle relates to how the universe itself works, not 
> > > > > > > to our inability to measure it precisely. 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Sylvia. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > How the uncertainty principle universe itself works has made 
> > > > > Stop fucking. "uncertainty principle" is how 
> > > > > physicists work, the universe has nothing to do it. 
> > > > The uncertainty principle is about the limitations 
> > > > of scientific measurement and why they 
> > > > do not ever go accurate. 
> > > That's what people thought at first but it goes deeper. Look up 
> > > e.g. "quantum eraser". 
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > Jan 
> > What is your argument jan?
> That unless we allow nonlocality, there are no hidden variables. 
> So there is nothing that we are merely "measuring inaccurately". 
> It goes deeper than that. 

What is the uncertainty principle about than imprecise
quantum measurements. Your hidden variables do not
change that QM. How do they change to certainty instead jan?

Mitchell Raemsch

> 
> -- 
> Jan

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