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Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals?

From Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm>
Newsgroups sci.logic
Subject Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals?
Date 2023-05-29 02:45 +0200
Message-ID <u50sih$k92e$1@solani.org> (permalink)
References (5 earlier) <215cf86b-d2e7-4d55-965f-cb9cf4e97624n@googlegroups.com> <b1c64a34-5657-467a-b6e7-2549d5a3610fn@googlegroups.com> <6648ee69-4549-4348-98e4-6263b0033bebn@googlegroups.com> <u50rdv$k8ok$1@solani.org> <u50rpn$k8ql$1@solani.org>

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Of course if your world is simple, there is not
much choice of a constructive or non-constructive
modelling, like for example this here:

man(socrates)

Makes a nice world fact. But then already a rule like:

∀x(man(x) -> mortal(x))

Is not anymore "material truth". Where do you
see rules inscribed in the "present"?

So how do you want to know that there is no error here:

man(socrates), ∀x(man(x) -> mortal(x)) |- mortal(socrates)

Maybe John Gabriel resurrected and he is immortal
now, so that we have a counter example to

∀x(man(x) -> mortal(x)):

In the form of:

man(jg), ~mortal(jg)

LoL

Mild Shock schrieb:
> 
> Although the name is "material implication", it
> doesn't designate material truth which is
> synonymous to synthetic propositions' truth.
> 
> "material implication" still belongs to formal
> truth and is tied to the intricacies of having
> a theory of the world. Roughly I guess it is the case:
> 
> In a construtive theory of the world:
> The Banach Tarski construction possibly doesn't work.
> 
> In a non-constructive theory of the world:
> The Banach Tarski construction possibly does work.
> 
> "material implication" is only the name of this identity:
> (A=>B) = (~A v B)
> Material implication (rule of inference)
> 
> But its not a license for material truth. I don't
> know the ethymology of metarial implication right
> now, why people call it that way.
> 
> Do you know?
> 
> Mild Shock schrieb:
>> Dan Christensen halucinated:
>>  > logical propositions that are unambiguously either true
>>  > or false in the present
>>
>> Define "present". Did you see a perfect unit circle
>> that satisfies this here:
>>
>> x^2 + y^2 = 1
>>
>> in the "present"? material implication has nothing to do
>> with truth in some "present".
>>
>> Whats wrong with you? Material implication is not some
>> measurement device. If we have material implication as:
>>
>> (A => B) == (~A v B)
>>
>> What makes you think it can generate more than analytic
>> "truth", i.e. real "truth"?
>>
>> The analytic–synthetic distinction is a semantic distinction, used 
>> primarily in philosophy to distinguish between propositions (in 
>> particular, statements that are affirmative subject–predicate 
>> judgments) that are of two types: analytic propositions and synthetic 
>> propositions. Analytic propositions are true or not true solely by 
>> virtue of their meaning, whereas synthetic propositions' truth, if 
>> any, derives from how their meaning relates to the world.
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analytic%E2%80%93synthetic_distinction
>>
>> Dan Christensen schrieb:
>>> On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 6:56:38 PM UTC-4, Mild Shock (aka Mr. 
>>> Collapse) wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Again, you have not answered my question: What erroneous 
>>>>> conclusions might arise from applying material conditionals for 
>>>>> logical propositions that are unambiguously either true or false in 
>>>>> the present?
>>>
>>> [snip same old childish abuse]
>>>
>>>> I wrote, what you willfully did hide in
>>>> your nonsense [snip], an example of a non-constructive proof:
>>>
>>>> Mild Shock schrieb am Sonntag, 28. Mai 2023 um 22:57:23 UTC+2:
>>>>> you are swimming in the pool of material implication.
>>>>> And this pool is affected by some anomalies due to
>>>>> LEM, such as the existence of this paradox:
>>>>>
>>>>> Banach–Tarski paradox
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banach%E2%80%93Tarski_paradox
>>>>>
>>>
>>> You were asked for an example of an erroneous conclusion that might 
>>> arise from applying material conditionals for logical propositions 
>>> that are unambiguously either true or false in the present. If you 
>>> are going to claim that BTP is such a result, you have lot of work 
>>> ahead of you. To get started, you must formally disprove BTP. Fame 
>>> and fortune await, Mr. Collapse! (Hee, hee!)
>>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>> Download my DC Proof 2.0 freeware at http://www.dcproof.com
>>> Visit my Math Blog at http://www.dcproof.wordpress.com
>>>
>>
>

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Thread

Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-27 12:04 -0700
  Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-05-27 13:25 -0700
    Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-27 19:42 -0700
  Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-28 08:39 -0700
    Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-28 11:50 -0700
    Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-28 12:01 -0700
      Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-28 13:47 -0700
        Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-28 13:57 -0700
          Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-28 14:02 -0700
          Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-05-28 16:12 -0500
          Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-28 15:39 -0700
            Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-28 15:56 -0700
              Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-28 16:04 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-28 16:14 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-28 16:24 -0700
              Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-28 16:49 -0700
              Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-28 16:52 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-05-29 02:25 +0200
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-05-29 02:31 +0200
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-05-29 02:45 +0200
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-28 17:59 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-28 17:46 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-28 17:51 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-28 18:01 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-28 18:07 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-28 18:12 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-28 18:15 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-28 18:17 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-28 18:23 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-28 18:28 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-28 18:46 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-05-28 21:51 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-05-28 22:14 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-28 22:33 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-28 22:36 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 09:01 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 09:27 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 09:32 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 09:35 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-29 10:03 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-05-29 19:45 +0200
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-30 05:52 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-30 15:16 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 11:14 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 22:53 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-05-30 17:45 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-05-31 08:23 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-31 13:22 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-31 13:31 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-31 13:38 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-31 13:51 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-01 19:56 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-01 21:35 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-01 21:44 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-01 18:54 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-01 19:55 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-01 21:13 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-01 21:19 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-01 21:23 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-01 21:30 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-01 22:02 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-01 22:28 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-01 22:31 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-01 22:34 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-01 22:39 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-01 23:29 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 14:14 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 14:23 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-01 23:26 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-02 09:42 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-01 20:41 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-01 20:58 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-01 21:24 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-01 21:28 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-01 21:31 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-01 21:34 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-01 22:49 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 04:49 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 04:51 -0700
        Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-28 15:33 -0700
    Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 02:52 -0700
      Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 02:58 -0700
        Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 03:03 -0700
          Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-29 07:35 -0700
            Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 08:23 -0700
              Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 08:30 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 08:33 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-29 09:56 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-05-29 19:56 +0200
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-29 11:40 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-29 11:43 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 13:32 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 13:38 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 13:59 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-29 15:19 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-29 15:21 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-05-29 17:37 -0700
                Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-05-29 19:00 -0700
  Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-06-02 09:41 +0200
    Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-02 09:42 -0700
      Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-02 11:00 -0700
        Re: Erroneous conclusions from applying material conditionals? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-02 11:14 -0700

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