Groups > linux.debian.maint.python > #7480

Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental

From	Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.maint.python
Subject	Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental
Date	2015-10-05 23:50 +0200
Message-ID	<qglNT-2VM-3@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	<qe1gC-53J-13@gated-at.bofh.it> <qg8QG-14p-15@gated-at.bofh.it> <qgdx0-7MJ-23@gated-at.bofh.it> <qgfpa-21B-55@gated-at.bofh.it>
Organization	Debian

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On 10/05/2015 04:57 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote:
> I agree that disabling package test suites doesn't improve their quality.

That's not what I did, I blacklisted these unit tests which were
failing, and kept all the others. As these unit tests were anyway
broken, it doesn't mater much.

> Were these bad tests?  Did you report these issues upstream?

Upstream will *not* fix the issue, because you know, they "fixed" it in
their CI by adding an upper version bound in the pip requirements, which
is fine for them in the gate. It is fixed in OpenStack Liberty though,
which I will soon upload to Sid.

>> It is also to be noted that mock is maintained by upstream OpenStack
>> people (ie: Robert Collins), and therefore, should be released in Debian
>> at the same time as other testing tools and the rest of OpenStack:
>> testools, testscenarios, subunit, testrepository, and many more. So in
>> the future, I'd advise to follow upstream release schedule. I would
>> encourage, if you don't mind, to put mock into the PKG OpenStack team,
>> because that's where it belongs. If we don't do that, and without being
>> careful, then breakage is to be expected.
> 
> I think this exhibits exactly the myopia others have complained about.  
> python-mock has over 200 reverse build-depends in the archive (python3-mock 
> has almost a hundred more). It may be used by openstack and maintained by 
> someone who also works on openstack, but it is, by no means an openstack 
> thing.

I'm surprised here by reading these numbers. How exactly do you show a
package's reverse build dependency? "apt-rdepends -b -r" doesn't work...
I remember I did it for mock though ... :(

> python-mock was first uploaded to the Debian archive in 2009.  I believe 
> openstack was started in 2010.  Unless your theory of python-mock involves 
> time travel, I don't think it's possible to make python-mock appear because of 
> openstack.

That's not the case. It just happens that Robert Collins

>> In other distributions (Red Hat and Ubuntu), everyone is aware of this
>> kind of issue before uploading, and this kinds of things don't happen.
>> There's a set of packages, goals and results for which these
>> distribution care about, so package updates aren't just uploaded blindly
>> without first making sure there's no grave consequence. I wish we did
>> the same. That's a way more important than respecting package ownership
>> for uploading to Experimental when there's no other reverse dependency
>> (and within a team ... glups!). I do see that this view isn't shared
>> among the persons who were self-appointed as "team leaders" though. In
>> the long term, this lowers a lot the overall quality of Debian, so my
>> hope is that everyone realizes what's important.
> 
> I'm glad to hear other distributions are perfect.

That's of course not what I wanted to say.

> You knowingly ignored the team norms and clearly have no regrets and would do it 
> again.

WHAT ? I mean ... WHAAAT ?!?

Do I express myself so badly, that it leads to this? Never, ever, I
wrote something like this. So let me state it once and for all.

1/ I have already expressed regrets for this upload.

2/ This upload is a *mistake* because I checked too fast packages.d.o
and saw "oh, DPMT, let's upload..." when I should have been more careful
and really check for the actual fields (which were matching the "do not
upload before ping" rule which I knew about, and not the "this is team
maintained, go ahead..." as I thought it was by looking too fast).

This is what made me say that writing this in a policy wont change
anything: mistakes can still happen, no mater how big you write the
rule. If we wrote "DPMT-do-not-upload" as maintainer, it'd be less prone
to mistakes, as it'd appear as so in the pacakges.d.o page and
everywhere else. The "trick" with uploads / maintainers field is just
too confusing and error prone.

3/ No, I wouldn't do it again...

Is it clear enough now? Re-read my past post, hopefully, you will
realize that this what I wrote in the first place.

> Personally, even if the team was the maintainer of the package, I would never 
> just upload something without giving a ping to anyone who was active as an 
> uploader.  I think it's just polite, even if it goes beyond what the team 
> strictly requires

Which I did many times too.

>> Yes, probably what I did wasn't the correct social way to do it, since
>> Sandro doesn't like it. But it was technically right to do so. I was
>> also shocked to read that it was bad for me to "care more about
>> OpenStack". Yes, of course I do. As this is what my employers pay me
>> for. Also because I spend countless hours on it, every day. But does it
>> mean I don't care about anything else in the archive, and don't mind
>> breakage of other components? Certainly not. And I expect everyone to
>> have respect for the Debian archive as a whole, do correct transitions
>> and so on (yes, transitions... also for Python modules...).
> 
> My impression based on your unwarranted hurry to upload python-networkx and 
> your rant about python-mock is openstack is all you care about.

Then you have a wrong impression. I was trying to express the exact same
opposite thing: that I care for everything else, and that I expect
everyone to do the same.

> I would really like it if instead of continuing to point fingers at other 
> people you would engage constructively.

Scott, it is my belief that you have a very wrong opinion of who I am.
What you wrote here, quoting me, shows the exact opposite of what I was
trying to explain. I really fail to understand how we've came to that.
Maybe you could try to re-read me again, trying to step in my shoes and
try to see the world from my point of view, rather than just seeing
black when I'm showing white?

Cheers,

Thomas Goirand (zigo)

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Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Sandro Tosi <morph@debian.org> - 2015-09-29 13:30 +0200
  Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-09-29 13:50 +0200
  Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Julien Cristau <julien.cristau@logilab.fr> - 2015-09-29 14:00 +0200
    Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Sandro Tosi <morph@debian.org> - 2015-09-29 14:20 +0200
      Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2015-09-30 10:20 +0200
        Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Sandro Tosi <morph@debian.org> - 2015-09-30 10:50 +0200
    Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2015-09-29 14:30 +0200
  Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Barry Warsaw <barry@debian.org> - 2015-09-29 15:50 +0200
    Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Tristan Seligmann <mithrandi@mithrandi.net> - 2015-09-29 16:30 +0200
      Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Barry Warsaw <barry@debian.org> - 2015-09-29 16:40 +0200
      Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2015-09-30 10:50 +0200
        Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Tristan Seligmann <mithrandi@mithrandi.net> - 2015-09-30 14:10 +0200
    Maintainer vs. Uploaders Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-09-29 16:40 +0200
      Re: Maintainer vs. Uploaders Barry Warsaw <barry@debian.org> - 2015-09-29 20:40 +0200
      Re: Maintainer vs. Uploaders Sandro Tosi <morph@debian.org> - 2015-09-30 11:30 +0200
    Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Julien Puydt <julien.puydt@laposte.net> - 2015-09-29 17:50 +0200
      Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Barry Warsaw <barry@debian.org> - 2015-09-29 20:40 +0200
        Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-09-29 20:50 +0200
          Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Julien Puydt <julien.puydt@laposte.net> - 2015-09-29 21:00 +0200
            lintian and team uploads Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-09-29 21:50 +0200
              Re: lintian and team uploads Barry Warsaw <barry@debian.org> - 2015-09-29 22:00 +0200
                Re: lintian and team uploads Julien Puydt <julien.puydt@laposte.net> - 2015-09-29 22:40 +0200
                Re: lintian and team uploads Barry Warsaw <barry@debian.org> - 2015-09-29 22:50 +0200
                Re: lintian and team uploads Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2015-09-30 05:00 +0200
                Re: lintian and team uploads Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2015-09-30 05:00 +0200
                git migration (AKA missing old good svn days) Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-09-29 23:10 +0200
                Re: git migration (AKA missing old good svn days) Barry Warsaw <barry@debian.org> - 2015-09-30 00:00 +0200
                Re: git migration (AKA missing old good svn days) Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2015-09-30 05:00 +0200
                Re: git migration (AKA missing old good svn days) Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2015-09-30 07:40 +0200
                Re: git migration (AKA missing old good svn days) Stefano Rivera <stefanor@debian.org> - 2015-10-03 11:40 +0200
    Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2015-09-30 11:00 +0200
      Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Sandro Tosi <morph@debian.org> - 2015-09-30 11:20 +0200
        Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2015-09-30 17:30 +0200
        Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2015-09-30 17:50 +0200
      Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Thomas Kluyver <thomas@kluyver.me.uk> - 2015-09-30 11:30 +0200
        Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Dimitri John Ledkov <xnox@debian.org> - 2015-09-30 12:30 +0200
          Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Sandro Tosi <morph@debian.org> - 2015-09-30 12:50 +0200
            Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2015-09-30 17:30 +0200
              Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2015-09-30 17:50 +0200
                Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2015-09-30 18:10 +0200
              Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Sandro Tosi <morph@debian.org> - 2015-09-30 18:40 +0200
          Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Sandro Tosi <morph@debian.org> - 2015-09-30 12:50 +0200
            Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2015-09-30 13:10 +0200
          Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2015-09-30 12:50 +0200
            Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2015-09-30 17:20 +0200
              Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Sandro Tosi <morph@debian.org> - 2015-09-30 18:30 +0200
      Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Michael Fladischer <fladi@debian.org> - 2015-10-05 10:00 +0200
        Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2015-10-05 15:00 +0200
          Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2015-10-05 17:00 +0200
            Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Barry Warsaw <barry@debian.org> - 2015-10-05 23:30 +0200
            Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2015-10-05 23:50 +0200
              Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2015-10-06 00:40 +0200
                Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2015-10-06 01:10 +0200
                Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2015-10-06 02:20 +0200
                Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2015-10-06 09:30 +0200
                Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2015-10-06 13:50 +0200
                Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2015-10-06 15:40 +0200
                Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-10-06 18:30 +0200
                Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2015-10-06 22:50 +0200
                Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-10-06 23:40 +0200
                Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2015-10-07 15:40 +0200
                Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Brian May <brian@microcomaustralia.com.au> - 2015-10-07 23:50 +0200
                Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-10-08 00:10 +0200
                Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2015-10-06 11:00 +0200
                Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Ben Finney <ben+debian@benfinney.id.au> - 2015-10-06 11:20 +0200
                Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Brian May <brian@microcomaustralia.com.au> - 2015-10-06 02:50 +0200
                Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2015-10-06 03:40 +0200
                Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2015-10-06 13:30 +0200
                Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Sandro Tosi <sandro.tosi@gmail.com> - 2015-10-06 13:40 +0200
              Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> - 2015-10-06 03:30 +0200
                Re: mock 1.2 breaking tests (was: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes  ACCEPTED into experimental) Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2015-10-06 09:30 +0200
                Re: mock 1.2 breaking tests (was:  python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental) Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> - 2015-10-06 16:00 +0200
                Re: mock 1.2 breaking tests (was: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes  ACCEPTED into experimental) Ian Cordasco <graffatcolmingov@gmail.com> - 2015-10-06 17:50 +0200
                Re: mock 1.2 breaking tests Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2015-10-06 19:10 +0200
          Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Robert Collins <robertc@robertcollins.net> - 2015-10-05 20:10 +0200
            Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Barry Warsaw <barry@debian.org> - 2015-10-05 23:20 +0200
              Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2015-10-06 09:40 +0200
          Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Barry Warsaw <barry@debian.org> - 2015-10-05 23:20 +0200
            Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Mattia Rizzolo <mattia@mapreri.org> - 2015-10-05 23:20 +0200
              Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Barry Warsaw <barry@debian.org> - 2015-10-05 23:30 +0200
                Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Mattia Rizzolo <mattia@mapreri.org> - 2015-10-05 23:50 +0200
            Re: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into experimental Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2015-10-05 23:30 +0200
            Re: managing transitions (was: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes  ACCEPTED into experimental) Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2015-10-06 09:50 +0200
              Re: managing transitions (was: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes  ACCEPTED into experimental) Brian May <brian@microcomaustralia.com.au> - 2015-10-06 10:50 +0200
                Re: managing transitions (was: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes  ACCEPTED into experimental) Mattia Rizzolo <mattia@mapreri.org> - 2015-10-06 13:10 +0200
                Re: managing transitions Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2015-10-06 16:10 +0200
                Re: managing transitions Mattia Rizzolo <mattia@mapreri.org> - 2015-10-06 17:10 +0200
                Re: managing transitions (was: python-networkx_1.10-1_amd64.changes  ACCEPTED into experimental) Barry Warsaw <barry@debian.org> - 2015-10-06 17:50 +0200
                Re: managing transitions Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2015-10-06 19:10 +0200
                Re: managing transitions Barry Warsaw <barry@debian.org> - 2015-10-06 20:20 +0200
                Re: managing transitions Fred Drake <fred@fdrake.net> - 2015-10-06 21:20 +0200
                Re: managing transitions Barry Warsaw <barry@debian.org> - 2015-10-06 21:30 +0200
                Re: managing transitions Ian Cordasco <graffatcolmingov@gmail.com> - 2015-10-06 21:30 +0200

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