Path: csiph.com!aioe.org!bofh.it!news.nic.it!robomod From: Markus Koschany Newsgroups: linux.debian.maint.java Subject: Re: Debian and NetBeans Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 17:50:01 +0100 Message-ID: References: X-Original-To: Geertjan Wielenga X-Mailbox-Line: From debian-java-request@lists.debian.org Sat Nov 2 16:43:10 2019 Old-Return-Path: X-Amavis-Spam-Status: No, score=-11.98 tagged_above=-10000 required=5.3 tests=[BAYES_00=-2, LDO_WHITELIST=-5, MURPHY_DRUGS_REL8=0.02, PGPSIGNATURE=-5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Policyd-Weight: using cached result; rate: -4.6 Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=apo@debian.org; keydata= mQINBFHcPU0BEADSMkR/1vDKvPN8dzkuKSL6UfYCobulyeU+S1QbNxjbatyZL4Dt1URzbyYb Mxpu3qtZm6NiBr7/0aBEYT23sdb23I2sWo9LjYaaSJNY2sTfwEE3DMLCHjhTR+r7H74Om6K4 9TvO/0YPc9J35EXK73rH+tyLRao9/7uB1Xsf5GaHWTUCtkgbiu57F2Fdzrt0IEQ4CF1XPg1a nvlbAX0zSviLzcIQ3p2vASQgwcNCoy6ElmiZninxmFWZT+CWf7/1hp4V+mYKvggfUpFeHCbJ fKm1xpUvHy19evOrnT5Epav/RUIbLOs1usBMttAqJ1h520wMDQ/bZgKCwDZxxPVUVYFtyHVc Ul2Q3WJ0AVRLHU/kRK42zjJalo7VHvaaadG9E8p/I/QzqnXUE+56vrgw++XN6nynQ/VqqcH9 JOaNRZ02fpNKfCYAxR2/kyS1PLc6BedARa3gwYuuknfhWq83ietP5mqQFfp5WicpSqRldnkP oz35vDvKKpYbPzNuYJ59vYvshCp+s4x+s0k5v0k8HGRRKvq9s4cYKweB63FWDPjCguIQUHS3 gPe8IfjlSHPD3JfB6XENEBXce1LiHjDlb9cHUFxWbJZp0JfpF72SjMNhaVCxFPNA8+s8U3pq g30vHuhmnPZQ/+bd39Jqn7Mq3MXReAH8d+irFDJVXC2K9lJKmwARAQABtCBNYXJrdXMgS29z Y2hhbnkgPGFwb0BkZWJpYW4ub3JnPokCVAQTAQoAPgIbAwULCQgHAwUVCgkICwUWAwIBAAIe AQIXgBYhBKzz0IjvMu3vahqDX9mtFLlRO1HkBQJaddmCBQkSzPZTAAoJENmtFLlRO1HkfG0P /0CjkujxU33yoywawbm/+JtXGkRiWf1SdO6sSN4j6iExuU41+V5cJQi0YMOZLMJlq9i7734U g6TF09CC02JNTwXdbvVjKU118bnL60HQ3yEXxKHflrmcMRRAlGdB1u4CYhDtn35pcmHL+NKc 22cjggWKZP17nSHlDvTr0k3UBg+4L4y2t+siBW883YUvrVLrC198EKCfupJ2anpp6N3G9Ga6 50QjCoJuB0XtklbfMlhMZPeC/eLOW6JUrPF0vLQb5dvJWXXhQdYgiuBssIqI3MNFXtoNIdtM lpglch+s5tWM1oifdhuBG6beV9TbxrpgssjPQvglyx0J5bUhVy5tplUQgGAX7YGh7Ft3PX+1 TfUosde81Qf3+lCoabLz5bNYAYvCC/11yScugPOwlEIUy8t7EldMUgpnksw0Ifz4/cTUAn1w 0ccWn+OSYHlazh6oqkI+P8bOAYYrIUutdRcbpwd29u1sX/1uvm1dbBNLzTqXXPeailzE+mBc rw9cX+gI3XhSdBtSnsv01W8NrEBKgYb5kwNzAn7pAK68cwLBvMpW69Xwa30Px2l6EGiE4Poo Ye49M5CHWw93b5vI9xs/ZBGpIWYFJpRwR5RrmwtWHOHURUoZWjMUDoQMRg5ni2xGJj0n1/G+ M88UxtKKpS+NLx1eW7CRgGBE5kKvh0ooE0SRuQINBFHcPU0BEADrjGOVBb4h/CAn0qQqYtoV 8rZ5O/kyreGxPZVU6z7v1Oa9EWH6NNF5o4mNWiu1ZOTNdujixJN//I5IlOd8rdrk45eQXoSJ PDf1WneR1lAgLkHxq9be4MVHu+R/xuBiSZ1JdKrHp+SA5+xUoWk67zJ6UNgUej65ONWa5sTA yAzciVptiRWfiWevPt0mIJ+JxKHfDfvfzx3hLEbGBFwMxbpdHBpf9Kxe0QOXV8XgUlDK33Uu LAG50cZFRM/vDJ5XtDXorTV20bXAjKQ4rFP+10YiZFR4od821D5Mi1LuSmZeyoLLMOQN3CNm TrE93id4i6g9600TGbzxp7bwHA6H3eS14znQMA4iKchKKoFDZ+TotnrhAgg6nNCw8XXbjrOe /zoLjDCmfa56qES3BS83K1SzrX+7L7/nUs5YlfRDjthsnvauncoF2FYf+ejrDLeLey4Ec+ru ihR09bkuT9oZL3GjvvApL4h2yOhafAnibJwFxt90c/532cKde/bbKofrn5bZXkxZ7UCRVY6D VONN7/HpFtizTwDIiNqz/DCcwE+n3nDG3EF6MOtQwSfmhFvhZR7gHbdiQQFo4RfHzPpGoz9d KuId4uI22L0r21+kLneKSRchNicSjvqtNK0qsaXYCrrXuDcTyTLbxSxyoA2Bm2cebz84Woi2 ob1hDFQfIo5xqwARAQABiQI8BBgBCgAmAhsMFiEErPPQiO8y7e9qGoNf2a0UuVE7UeQFAlp1 2aAFCRLM9lMACgkQ2a0UuVE7UeQTShAAx8ri/Hc0NLNLfWsW7vsp59KNwO4CFpSFraZLA8tk 1X3UXT+195U2walLKbPNBL3GbT03gzclKRgQW+aPbXLzEabxTlIsqyRi42uWB84q2YKteTiL WKSVTvf5+eL7Iu2oFy++aGtj3RARhUQMdt0OUAkUDbzJYLu/UDfboClmjt607/nzkdi0ow0R HQM0zxYlXIIVmI1xOOjogAMxTbSnWonx/+i+FzINMSgy1nAvwuxL78pM459aN4KIPg2U604L 6eg3zivhJCCWtPdL/Dmq311nXoJhIfoE6lTuIto/FD2hctVLT2bZXg1s0V3S13RiDXLgozdv lSzkuND5WG0+VCfM12T6La0mHiTN6Fa4seAbV7YhUsiDUwsAGeOQghnYkW9cOdQ//pcZXuRi haPP3oNFEIC7AG2VPfNF9T9S1eYuD/3RnpYXxoLkmjfmrdrGCIKt6k0E43a2Fgse6l2ip/Ey 1TzG5NFMYhcwaettkGTrV6ZQwfvhjhwq+UWde5Fe5udl3SUVzJ+wS+4aV8+TxGZT1bGrkBFe 8QsQH6bmwKBPOK7tFLGOdZrn+IMflmmcmBlyqLvRBoN0LdpCY0mWb3JVu5AV46SbGG8F+RPw t2+zmQo2837RT+2qjhhs6eHS+rzIBj+R4pNjjn23ZL3Bcw458bg4r8QWzVx9+745GCg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="QqVOlac1SXaeunvzpLRcuGtcn1m9pM0kK" Authentication-Results: ORIGINATING; auth=pass smtp.auth=apo@gambaru.de smtp.mailfrom=apo@debian.org X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/22017 List-ID: List-URL: List-Archive: https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/60ee9aff-6190-3101-b0a7-493931a82a4a@debian.org Approved: robomod@news.nic.it Lines: 118 Organization: linux.* mail to news gateway Sender: robomod@news.nic.it X-Original-Cc: dev , Debian Java List X-Original-Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2019 17:42:52 +0100 X-Original-Message-ID: <60ee9aff-6190-3101-b0a7-493931a82a4a@debian.org> X-Original-References: Xref: csiph.com linux.debian.maint.java:11465 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --QqVOlac1SXaeunvzpLRcuGtcn1m9pM0kK Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="jB7dUF9VjinETRLSuAMuKQdQlS9orFnrk"; protected-headers="v1" From: Markus Koschany To: Geertjan Wielenga Cc: dev , Debian Java List Message-ID: <60ee9aff-6190-3101-b0a7-493931a82a4a@debian.org> Subject: Re: Debian and NetBeans References: In-Reply-To: --jB7dUF9VjinETRLSuAMuKQdQlS9orFnrk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Geertjan, Am 02.11.19 um 11:59 schrieb Geertjan Wielenga: > Hi Markus, >=20 > Great work, you appear to be making releases of NetBeans available on > Debian, with patches: >=20 > https://sources.debian.org/src/netbeans/10.0-3/debian/patches/ >=20 > How are you doing this, are you keeping track of the latest releases --= > we have just released 11.2. >=20 > Here are the distros that appear to be on Debian: >=20 > https://sources.debian.org/src/netbeans/ >=20 > Also, what's the reason for the patches, is the end result still clearl= y > NetBeans with all its features -- what has been modified and can it be > truly called "NetBeans" still? >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Gj Netbeans is currently only available in Debian unstable and oldstable. The oldstable version is based on Netbeans 8.1 and works fine with Java 8. We always have only supported the base version of Netbeans because it is nearly impossible to maintain all features of Netbeans for Debian. The version in unstable is based on Netbeans 10.0 and is not part of Debian stable because even the base version has some serious flaws that makes it unsuitable for a stable release. [1] Thanks to the help of Jaroslav Tulach and Jan Lahoda I could make some progress and I believe Ubuntu has a patch to fix the most serious problem but still packaging new releases of Netbeans requires too much time which I would like to spend on other Debian packages instead. There are mainly two reasons for the patches, the build system and Debian's requirement to build packages only with system libraries. In Debian all build-dependencies must be available as separate packages which are all built from source and comply with the Debian Free Software Guidelines. That means in order to build Netbeans we can't rely on your build system which downloads hundreds of prebuilt binaries from the internet. For instance in order to package Netbeans for Debian we also have to package javaewah, jaxb, jgit, svnkit, Ant, Maven, etc. The second requirement is that we have only one version of a certain Java library because of security support. We don't provide multiple different versions of an Apache Commons library for example which helps us to fix security vulnerabilities quickly because we only have to patch one package instead of dozens. So whenever another project which is also packaged in Debian requires a newer/older release of a certain library but Netbeans still build-depends on an older/newer version of the same library build failures or runtime errors may occur and this requires a patch. The most likely scenario for the future is that Netbeans will be removed from Debian unless more people start to contribute. We will still keep the Netbeans Platform package because it is easier to maintain and also needed to build VisualVM for example. Regards, Markus [1] https://bugs.debian.org/925509 --jB7dUF9VjinETRLSuAMuKQdQlS9orFnrk-- --QqVOlac1SXaeunvzpLRcuGtcn1m9pM0kK Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQKTBAEBCgB9FiEErPPQiO8y7e9qGoNf2a0UuVE7UeQFAl29sgxfFIAAAAAALgAo aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldEFD RjNEMDg4RUYzMkVERUY2QTFBODM1RkQ5QUQxNEI5NTEzQjUxRTQACgkQ2a0UuVE7 UeQhnRAAyImXOGIjSSu3PKitnZAG6irUJsbh1gP2wDrl44v+AqbnJxzpL513EHcA Cq/eZ0zFy9eSPkGXBLm37o8WQkn4/3XUprfrFH21YTPR80CJH2EXfezt/93/QhtH WFv5PjuBCk1OIw4wuO+KLcAGzkYjckBsS8f8vqDgWpORD0iF8PXyfwCSKBE3mBAZ mSe02Pxg0Yl1zGMpWMIFMqfU+qliZywRCQRhT29cNUviJtTnyTrq+6mjFjtcR88H anZT+EYnL+IQd3GcTyMBqdQFeOgbGLRwCxec9zs2wJiivpY0uAYRtpfmGXswugvG FY+gW3jVrgLVGL+CdvYnjbm4CXrF1Yksh7COhhvsh2tOAMEmr72c2PlJOmpjHxOT 5uB9yRaUfsroI0IHXixHkww1ZMKzL0kiUonRo2786hmYLVFAw2BrwzWxYpwI8kmL eJd7IhuamcddLGFo9LGBp1Fs08mMnGIvZhahw4wwozu9exyD5qpRdHv+/va7TAyM l2mZ4tPAx3SMM65Vh+BYPVExpzJ0i+r5PSx0RojbvZVQD62X8uXeyQXSoaOK//Kj wXxD3af9ygk4zLNohBRi0CYtv0uB3A7ErU6ejwLKwLLJ+wISrRhe3rg7CdG0q8Ug 9ZKILtuRGub+wHjq5FPx1FofOHm6MjEgPkVTfW86r05ze6EYDuc= =jgQA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --QqVOlac1SXaeunvzpLRcuGtcn1m9pM0kK--