Path: csiph.com!fu-berlin.de!news.servidellagleba.it!bofh.it!news.nic.it!robomod From: Sean Gilligan Newsgroups: linux.debian.maint.java Subject: Re: FYI: I created a Gradle issue for bootstrappable Debian support Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 19:30:01 +0200 Message-ID: References: X-Original-To: Emmanuel Bourg , debian-java@lists.debian.org X-Mailbox-Line: From debian-java-request@lists.debian.org Thu Sep 28 17:21:44 2023 Old-Return-Path: X-Amavis-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.473 tagged_above=-10000 required=5.3 tests=[BAYES_00=-2, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, LDO_WHITELIST=-5, NICE_REPLY_A=-1.473, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Policyd-Weight: using cached result; rate: -5.5 X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzONeGpjSG5FpboE3mJNC8/1vy0g3PyO+OedR80ywRO0bO54cOh VUSM04Be6VV/zWl5MXq+WlktWFeskIC9XfP6Cfdhog== X-Google-SMTP-Source: AGHT+IHP5vMzn2hMKR/WZI8Qk2yzoJc9dcnKT3HD2wX1Pym9KJXL/xVvhhYptGHQFxRa9allC8Y1oA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:4508:b0:690:9a5a:e34e with SMTP id cw8-20020a056a00450800b006909a5ae34emr3283394pfb.12.1695921679989; Thu, 28 Sep 2023 10:21:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.15.1 Content-Language: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/23384 List-ID: List-URL: List-Archive: https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/260d414a-ea7d-0e6c-5321-36e935e60318@msgilligan.com Approved: robomod@news.nic.it Lines: 100 Organization: linux.* mail to news gateway Sender: robomod@news.nic.it X-Original-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 10:21:18 -0700 X-Original-Message-ID: <260d414a-ea7d-0e6c-5321-36e935e60318@msgilligan.com> X-Original-References: <1e617888-65ec-d914-ef9c-74a4f1937b79@msgilligan.com> <6fd08c66-62f6-69d0-3483-c4ca4d7533bb@apache.org> <09e3da57-a30a-2ae5-dc91-4eb9383ce451@msgilligan.com> Xref: csiph.com linux.debian.maint.java:12702 > But we'll switch to Gradle if necessary in the future. Typo: I meant Maven. On 9/27/23 1:01 PM, Sean Gilligan wrote: > Hi Emmanuel, > > FrankenGradle!  That's a great name! > > I know it's unlikely they are going to do anything, but I thought > there should at least be an up-to-date GitHub Issue for Gradle to look > at and for a discussion to hopefully occur. > > bitcoinj has franken-build-scripts that use a growing number of > conditionals to ensure they run on the latest Gradle as well as > FrankenGradle 4.4.x and Gradle 4.10.3 (which is the closest standard > version that we can easily use on GitHub CI.)  The scripts have been > difficult to maintain but they are currently working and they will > suffice through the 0.17 release. They are also supporting JDK 21, so > we are definitely OK for now. > > We use Debian Docker images for our GitLab CI builds and for our > reference build which can be run locally as well. Being Debian Free > Software Guidelines compliant is important to us. We would like to > eventually see the bitcoinj library, our "wallet-tool" command-line > app, and perhaps even a GUI wallet be available as Debian packages. > > Thinking longer-term, we have had brief discussions about switching to > Maven, but haven't made any serious effort yet. We've been hoping that > Gradle will see the light and/or you will make progress even without > their support. But we'll switch to Gradle if necessary in the future. > > Thanks gain for all your efforts! > > -- Sean > > > On 9/26/23 12:19 AM, Emmanuel Bourg wrote: >> Hi Sean, >> >> Thank you for your support, I'm glad someone appreciates our >> FrankenGradle ;) >> >> Gradle is difficult to upgrade in Debian for a variety of reasons. >> For one thing it's a huge monolith and thus it's a bit all or >> nothing, if one part is missing your are stuck. Maven in comparison >> is highly modular and can be upgraded piece by piece. The major pain >> point currently is the Kotlin DSL, I wish the core of Gradle would >> have remained pure Java/Groovy. And then there is the non-free stuff >> like the Gradle enterprise plugin that gets in the way. >> >> Addressing these issues in Gradle isn't a trivial task, and I doubt >> the bootstrappability is compelling enough to motivate the Gradle >> developers to work on it. >> >> If this is important for bitcoinj I would suggest switching to >> another build tool, either Maven if you have a fairly standard >> project structure, or Ant if you need the flexibility of an >> imperative build system (and Ant is by far the easiest to bootstrap). >> >> Emmanuel Bourg >> >> >> Le 25/09/2023 à 22:17, Sean Gilligan a écrit : >>> Hi Everyone, >>> >>> I appreciate the efforts of the Debian Java team and know that your >>> job is not easy. >>> >>> I work on bitcoinj (Java) and we are (for better or worse) using >>> Gradle for our builds. We are stuck supporting Gradle 4.4.x, when >>> the latest version of Gradle 8.3 (or 8.4) is required to support JDK >>> 21 (if you're not using the Debian-patched Gradle, of course.) >>> >>> I had thought there was already an issue for this on the Gradle >>> GitHub project, but today I couldn't find anything. So I created a >>> new one: >>> https://github.com/gradle/gradle/issues/26516 >>> >>> I thought I would share that with you for reference purposes. Or >>> maybe someone might want to comment on the issue, especially if >>> anyone from Gradle responds or asks questions. >>> >>> I'm hoping that priorities at Gradle may be changing now that >>> supply-chain security has become a more visible issue in the >>> industry. (Yes, I'll admit to being an optimist.) >>> >>> Anyway, thanks for your efforts. We do appreciate them. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> p.s. If you're interested in how we are dealing with this at >>> bitcoinj, I created an issue there as well: >>> https://github.com/bitcoinj/bitcoinj/issues/3287 >>> >> >