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Re: Re: packaging Go runtime for ANTLR4

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On Wed, Jul 28, 2021 at 08:41:46AM +0200, Emmanuel Bourg wrote:
>> Hi Peymaneh,
>>
>> Le 2021-07-27 10:09, Peymaneh Nejad a écrit :
>>
>> > Is it intended or wished for that additional runtimes other than Java
>> > are packaged in seperate source packages
>>
>> Yes it is, for several reasons:
>> - The Java Team doesn't have the time and skills to maintain properly a
>> multi-language package like ANTLR. The Java part is sufficiently complex on
>> its own, we'd rather not have to care about the other languages.
>> - Different language ecosystems often require distinct and slightly
>> incompatible versions of ANTLR.
>> - Handling several languages in the same package makes upgrades and
>> regression testing much more difficult.
>> - ANTLR is a core package of the Java ecosystems, including more languages
>> increases the dependency tree of the Java packages and makes the
>> bootstrapping harder.
>>
>> So it's preferable to have a clear separation of responsability with
>> different source packages, each language team having the freedom to maintain
>> its version as needed without impacting the others.

> I don't disagree with Emmanuel's statements about the importance of
> ANTLR and why it is helpful to maintain separation.  However, I don't
> think introducing a separate source package each language ecosystem is
> necessarily best for Debian.

> It causes additional work for the Security team when in the event there
> vulnerabilities.  It potentially confuses users (and Debian developers)
> by creating a distinction that does not exist upstream.  It also means
> that we will release with different versions of ANTLR for different
> languages, which feels very "non-distro" to me.  (What happens if the
> version of the ANTLR parser for language X is subtly incompatible with
> language Y, and a user runs a system on Debian that requires both
> bindings?)

Chiming in here, since it was originally me who asked Peymaneh to contact
this list, and I was sponsoring the same.
I was initially of the same opinion that it should be unified into a
single source package, but ebourg's points against doing that are pretty
strong too.

While I do not disagree w/ tony on this, but there already exist
antlr4-cpp-runtime[1] and python3-antlr4[2] packaged separately, and
indeed, they seem to have different versions than the Java antlr4 we
have -- 4.9 and 4.9.1 respectively as opposed to 4.7.2 in the java
antlr4 package

IMO, this is making it "non-distro" already.
There are also a bunch of other runtimes in other languages
which might as well need packaging at some point in time

Then, we have a few options:

1) Talk to the maintainers of cpp-runtime and python3-antlr to unify
sources with the original antlr4 source package
And this can be a very time consuming task there, since fundamentally
the versions differ quite a bit, and fixing it will take time

2) Do "$something-else" for all these packages to stay in sync - again,
probably bumping versions only when needed.
With this approach, I do not see a problem in introducing a Go runtime
source package there

Thoughts?

[1]: https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/antlr4-cpp-runtime
[2]: https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/python3-antlr4

Nilesh

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packaging Go runtime for ANTLR4 Peymaneh Nejad <p.nejad@posteo.de> - 2021-07-27 10:10 +0200
  Re: packaging Go runtime for ANTLR4 Olek Wojnar <olek@debian.org> - 2021-07-27 17:10 +0200
    Re: packaging Go runtime for ANTLR4 tony mancill <tmancill@debian.org> - 2021-07-27 18:10 +0200
  Re: packaging Go runtime for ANTLR4 Emmanuel Bourg <ebourg@apache.org> - 2021-07-28 10:10 +0200
    Re: packaging Go runtime for ANTLR4 Peymaneh Nejad <p.nejad@posteo.de> - 2021-07-28 11:20 +0200
    Re: packaging Go runtime for ANTLR4 tony mancill <tmancill@debian.org> - 2021-07-28 17:10 +0200
      Re: Re: packaging Go runtime for ANTLR4 Nilesh Patra <nilesh@debian.org> - 2021-07-28 21:40 +0200
        Re: packaging Go runtime for ANTLR4 tony mancill <tmancill@debian.org> - 2021-07-28 21:50 +0200
        Re: packaging Go runtime for ANTLR4 Andrius Merkys <merkys@debian.org> - 2021-07-29 09:10 +0200
          Re: packaging Go runtime for ANTLR4 Olek Wojnar <olek@debian.org> - 2021-07-29 16:20 +0200
          Re: packaging Go runtime for ANTLR4 Nilesh Patra <nilesh@debian.org> - 2021-07-29 21:50 +0200
          antlr 4.10 released [Was: Re: packaging Go runtime for ANTLR4] Andrius Merkys <merkys@debian.org> - 2022-04-13 10:40 +0200
        Re: packaging Go runtime for ANTLR4 Emmanuel Bourg <ebourg@apache.org> - 2021-07-30 02:40 +0200
      Re: packaging Go runtime for ANTLR4 Emmanuel Bourg <ebourg@apache.org> - 2021-07-30 05:50 +0200

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