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Re: a sed question

From	Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com>
Newsgroups	comp.unix.shell
Subject	Re: a sed question
Date	2024-12-21 15:21 -0300
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<87ttawsxra.fsf@example.com> (permalink)
References	<874j304vv3.fsf@example.com> <vk40gi$3g9sm$1@dont-email.me> <87ed21xmb3.fsf@example.com> <vk6n6r$3vofi$1@dont-email.me>

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Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> writes:

> On 21/12/2024 12:17, Salvador Mirzo wrote:
>> I'm studying and I often go back to the past to see what life was I
>> like.  I initially tried to solve the problem with /ed/, but did not
>> find a way to insert a string coming from the a shell script's cmdline.
>> Then I thought that /sed/ was there to make /ed/ more scriptable.
>
> 	I think the other contributors are somewhat harsh on Sed.  For
> those who started on V6 Unix, there was just Ed, and, as you thought,
> Sed was added in V7 as a scripting improvement to Ed.  Awk also came
> in with V7.  Some people adopted Awk with enthusiasm, but the early
> versions were quite limited/buggy, partly thanks to the limitations of
> the PDP-11;  Sed was pretty reliable even in those days.  So at least
> some users tried and failed with Awk, but found Sed usable with very
> little to learn, thanks to the relationship with Ed.  The arcana of
> Sed are much easier to understand if you are/were a regular user of Ed,
> whereas Awk requires you to learn a whole new language [I'm not in any
> way suggesting that that is unusually difficult].

It doesn't seem difficult to learn, but there could be so many different
implementations now that it could be a challenge to write a script and
distribute it around.

> 	So students will normally no longer learn or use Ed/Sed, apart
> perhaps from "s/foo/bar/" and similar;  it makes more sense to learn a
> visual editor and Awk.  But for older hands, and for those interested
> in the history, there is still a use for Sed.

History is my main thing here.  I like to know how life was like.  I
recently read ``Hackers'' by Steven Levy, 1984.  (I was sad it ended.)
I have an open mind about software.  I'm here on the USENET because I
discovered it in non-standard media.  It turns out I find NNTP a much
better medium of discourse than any other.  (I'm writing this from a GNU
EMACS buffer and will be send out using Gnus.  Gnus can be dramatically
uninuitive, but there seems to be no real replacement for it when it
comes to USENET and perhaps mail.)  It is noticeable that newer
generations are not really better at writing software compared to
previous generations.  I wouldn't change make, for example, for newer
ones.  Have you seen Gradle?  What was that for?  There's a website
whose slogan is ``newer is not always better''.

> Personally, I know my way around Sed much better than Awk.  So, again
> personally, Sed is my stream editor of choice for tasks somewhat
> harder than "s ...", but not so hard that I need to do some serious
> programming and checking of the documentation.  [YMMV, and I'm
> certainly not trying to persuade any Awk users that they should learn
> to use Sed instead.]

I actually know awk a little bit.  I've read the ``AWK Programming
Language'' by Aho, Kernighan and Weinberger, 1988.  I loved it.  It
replaced pretty everything I used when shell scripting something.  But
it doesn't feel right to ignore ed and sed.  I need to know at least how
to use them for the essential cases.  These tools incorporate a certain
way of thinking that's very valuable and knowing where they come from is
very valuable.

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Thread

a sed question Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2024-12-18 16:46 -0300
  Re: a sed question John-Paul Stewart <jpstewart@personalprojects.net> - 2024-12-18 15:12 -0500
  Re: a sed question Ralf Damaschke <rwspam@gmx.de> - 2024-12-19 01:14 +0000
    Re: a sed question Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2024-12-19 09:05 -0300
      Re: a sed question Ralf Damaschke <rwspam@gmx.de> - 2024-12-20 00:55 +0000
        Re: a sed question gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2024-12-20 12:44 +0000
          Re: a sed question Ralf Damaschke <rwspam@gmx.de> - 2024-12-21 00:17 +0000
            Re: a sed question Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-12-21 03:09 +0000
              sed... (Was: a sed question) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2024-12-21 03:36 +0000
                Re: sed... (Was: a sed question) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-12-21 03:57 +0000
                Re: sed... (Was: a sed question) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-12-21 15:38 +0100
                Re: sed... (Was: a sed question) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-12-21 17:29 +0100
                Re: sed... Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-12-21 14:23 -0800
                Re: sed... Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-12-22 00:33 +0100
                Re: sed... (Was: a sed question) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2024-12-21 21:46 +0000
                Re: sed... (Was: a sed question) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-12-22 21:22 +0000
              Re: a sed question Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-12-21 15:35 +0100
              Re: a sed question Ralf Damaschke <rwspam@gmx.de> - 2024-12-22 00:43 +0000
  Re: a sed question Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-12-20 15:55 +0100
    Checking for right # of args in a shell script (Was: a sed question) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2024-12-20 15:11 +0000
      Re: Checking for right # of args in a shell script (Was: a sed question) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-12-20 16:49 +0100
        Re: Checking for right # of args in a shell script (Was: a sed question) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2024-12-20 17:43 +0000
    Re: a sed question Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2024-12-21 09:17 -0300
      Re: a sed question Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-12-21 16:19 +0100
        Re: a sed question Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-12-21 13:41 -0800
          Re: a sed question Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-12-22 00:50 +0100
            Re: a sed question Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-12-21 16:26 -0800
              Re: a sed question Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-12-22 01:41 +0100
            Re: a sed question Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-22 00:31 +0000
              Re: a sed question Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-12-22 02:06 +0100
      Re: a sed question Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2024-12-21 15:34 +0000
        Re: a sed question Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-12-21 17:14 +0100
        Re: a sed question Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2024-12-21 15:21 -0300
          Re: a sed question Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-12-21 20:48 +0100
      Re: a sed question Helmut Waitzmann <nn.throttle@xoxy.net> - 2024-12-21 19:20 +0100
    Re: a sed question Ordatious <order@order.invalid> - 2024-12-22 09:19 +0000
      Re: a sed question Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-12-22 19:23 +0100
  Re: a sed question Ed Morton <mortonspam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-21 08:13 -0600
    Re: a sed question Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-21 21:09 +0000
      Re: a sed question Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-12-22 01:02 +0100
        Re: a sed question Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-22 00:28 +0000
          Re: a sed question Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-12-21 16:36 -0800
            Re: a sed question Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-22 01:52 +0000
              Re: a sed question Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-12-21 21:09 -0800
                Re: a sed question Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-22 05:56 +0000
                Re: a sed question Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-12-21 22:55 -0800
                Re: a sed question Eric Pozharski <apple.universe@posteo.net> - 2024-12-23 10:09 +0000
                Re: a sed question gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2024-12-23 12:41 +0000
                Re: a sed question Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-12-23 18:47 +0000
                Re: a sed question Eric Pozharski <apple.universe@posteo.net> - 2024-12-24 11:20 +0000
          Re: a sed question Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-12-22 02:22 +0100
      Re: a sed question gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2024-12-22 01:09 +0000
      Re: a sed question Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-12-22 20:03 +0000
      Re: a sed question Ed Morton <mortonspam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 07:26 -0600
        How to solve The Miracle (was Re: a sed question) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-12-23 21:09 +0100
        Re: a sed question Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-23 22:57 +0000
          Re: a sed question Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 15:06 -0800
            Re: a sed question Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-24 00:28 +0000
              Re: a sed question anthk <anthk@openbsd.home> - 2025-03-23 09:45 +0000
                Re: a sed question Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-23 23:41 +0000
          Re: a sed question Ed Morton <mortonspam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-24 06:20 -0600
            Dealing with four-year-olds... (Was: a sed question) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2024-12-24 12:58 +0000
            Re: a sed question Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-24 20:57 +0000
              Re: a sed question Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-12-24 21:46 +0000
                Arguing with a four-year-old (Was: a sed question) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2024-12-24 23:53 +0000

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