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From: Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com>
Newsgroups: comp.std.c
Subject: Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior?
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2023 21:57:20 -0700
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Jakob Bohm <jb-usenet@wisemo.com.invalid> writes:

> On 2023-07-21 19:42, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>
>> On 2023-07-21, Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> N3096 is the last public draft of the upcoming C23 standard.
>>>
>>> N3096 J.2 says:
>>>
>>>      The behavior is undefined in the following circumstances:
>>>      [...]
>>>      (11) The value of an object with automatic storage duration is
>>>           used while the object has an indeterminate representation
>>>           (6.2.4, 6.7.10, 6.8).
>>
>> Personally, I think that the root cause of this whole issue is
>> the defective definition of indeterminate value.
>
> The problem is much deeper than that.  It all boils down to the
> obsession in the official C community to abuse the concept of
> "undefined" to cover everything from "arbitrary natural semantics
> of the hardware" to "optimizing away code unexpectedly" .  [...]

This discussion looks interesting but it seems better that
there be a separate thread to take it up.