Path: csiph.com!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!news.misty.com!news.iecc.com!.POSTED.news.iecc.com!not-for-mail From: "Miroslav Lichvar via questions Mailing List" Newsgroups: comp.protocols.time.ntp Subject: Re: best current practices regarding "peer"? Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2026 11:53:00 -0000 (UTC) Organization: Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY Message-ID: References: Reply-To: "Miroslav Lichvar" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2026 11:53:00 -0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: gal.iecc.com; posting-host="news.iecc.com:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:676f:7373:6970"; logging-data="48409"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@iecc.com" To: questions@lists.ntp.org Return-Path: Delivered-To: ntpquestions@iecc.com Errors-To: questions-owner@lists.ntp.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.2 (2025-08-27) on gal.iecc.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.1 required=4.4 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS shortcircuit=no autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=4.0.2 Authentication-Results: iecc.com; spf=pass spf.mailfrom=questions-owner@lists.ntp.org spf.helo=mail0.chi1.ntfo.org smtp.remote-ip="204.93.207.17"; dkim=pass header.d=lists.ntp.org header.s=mail header.a=rsa-sha256 header.b="ec4m50J8"; dmarc=pass header.from=lists.ntp.org polrec.p=quarantine polrec.pct=100 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lists.ntp.org; s=mail; t=1774266576; bh=Ku9l9OFE0SPmmIvdJt9j6PFGxB2g22Xk3pbmArdK2zo=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:Message-ID:References:MIME-Version: In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Reply-To:Sender: List-Id:List-Help:List-Subscribe:List-Unsubscribe:List-Post: List-Owner:List-Archive; b=ec4m50J80IXHvrOA/+lktVEI9F+giKXhIi2WZjSuRBGTRg0yWLuxVbo6/6FiTcqQI gPZ8omddDuiot+8gNYX1gRtWPe0BAzfiiz7PlKJ+wJDNww+9rbPmll8ZeEnz1pMl8I h5pm8VwwTo X-MC-Unique: bUEHWLfUObqTGlnfe97sBA-1 X-Mimecast-MFC-AGG-ID: bUEHWLfUObqTGlnfe97sBA_1774266539 In-Reply-To: X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 3.0 on 10.30.177.17 X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-MFC-PROC-ID: GJxdWK-LpuxY3KrDDQMceuPjOTKdn6WjqZbimpEZcd8_1774266539 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Disposition: inline X-Loop: questions@lists.ntp.org List-Id: List-Help: , List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-Original-DMARC-Record: domain=redhat.com; v=DMARC1; p=quarantine; rua=mailto: 5f1992045035946@rep.dmarcanalyzer.com; ruf=mailto:5f1992045035946@for.dmarcanalyzer.com; fo=1; X-Original-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1774266543; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=Ku9l9OFE0SPmmIvdJt9j6PFGxB2g22Xk3pbmArdK2zo=; b=DstFIxMbTFUy9eNiPTLq3RozkcGkG/aJHmoRjnFjkF9IN8QiB7ySxVeuXwj3/a24gMrMbR s3iYhkyy6W/GE4M2CPm6MnqThV12bdXYi X-Original-From: Miroslav Lichvar X-DCC-iecc-Metrics: gal.iecc.com 1107; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Mail-to-news: iecc.com Xref: csiph.com comp.protocols.time.ntp:164241 On Thu, Mar 19, 2026 at 01:25:23PM +0000, Ivan Shmakov wrote: > To my surprise, I’ve found that as part of the ‘hardening’ effort > for NTPsec (the version included in Debian Trixie) the ‘peer’ > association type got removed; this is what I get in syslog: > > CONFIG: peer deprecated, treated as server: (peer-IP-address) > > The question is: what is the best current practice for having > ‘a clique of low-stratum peers operate as mutual backups for each > other’? Is ‘peer’ truly deprecated for any and all possible uses? "peer" configures a symmetric association. "server" configures a client-server association. A symmetric association can be fully replaced by two client-server associations in the opposite directions. It just doubles the network traffic. Basically, the client-server mode is a special case of the symmetric mode. NTP originally had only the symmetric mode, later was added client-server mode, and couple decades later the symmetric mode might be removed from NTP completely. The current best practice for "a clique of low-stratum peers operate as mutual backups for each other" is the same except use "server" instead of "peer". The only interesting feature of the symmetric mode is that time can be pushed to a host that doesn't specify the other peer in its config. The disadvantages are much more difficult implementation, worse security, and less accurate measurement of the network delay due to much larger intervals between requests and responses. -- Miroslav Lichvar