Path: csiph.com!x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder3.hal-mli.net!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder1.hal-mli.net!news.glorb.com!npeer01.iad.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!post01.iad.highwinds-media.com!newsfe17.iad.POSTED!00000000!not-for-mail From: seeWebInstead@rem.intarweb.org (Robert Maas, http://tinyurl.com/uh3t) Errors-To: ErrorsToHere@YahooGroups.Com X-Spam-This: SpamCopies@YahooGroups.Com X-Twitter: CalRobert Newsgroups: comp.ai.philosophy,comp.programming Subject: Re: John McCarthy R.I.P. References: <738sp4gb4v79.soj02a849hyl$.dlg@40tude.net> Message-ID: Lines: 121 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rawbandwidth.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 02:01:26 UTC Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 18:00:06 -0800 Xref: x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net comp.ai.philosophy:2578 comp.programming:1043 > From: "Dmitry A. Kazakov" > We know how car functions, that is why there exist objective > features which characterize a car. These features are used as > criteria for comparison (for the properties of interest). All > this does not apply to intelligence. For a car we know in detail at multiple levels from overall system function down to chemistry and mechanics, how a car functions. We don't yet know so well how a brain functions, but in recent years it's become apparent that the brain is a loose collection of special-purpose processors, to perform routine data-processing functions such as visual-feature extraction and muscle-servo, and specialized but complex problem-solving functions such as building a model of what's in the visual field, fitted into a longer-term model of the entire local geography, and figuring out how to perform navigation and hand-arm manipulation actions upon external objects. Accordingly I believe it would be appropriate to define classes of tasks performed by the various processing centers of the brain, and then to try to devise computer systems to perform each of these tasks. Several data-processing tasks have already been successfully automated: OCR, voice-input, parameterization of graphical input, musical-tune recognition, crawling/walking/hopping. One high-level almost-real-world problem-solving task has been demonstrated: Solving some of the kinds of natural-language riddles/puzzles per the "Jeopardy!" TV show. See below for my suggestions for additional kinds of special-domain almost-real-world problem-solving tasks. > >> Continuing in that vein there is actually only one operation needed: the > >> operation "THINK". (:-)) > > Why is that so? That is what is termed an allegation -- and it is > > downright silly. > Less silly than counting ADD, SUB, MUL, MOV instructions. At > least it is known for sure that the instruction THINK does > thinking, which cannot be said about any existing combination of > ADD, SUB, MUL, MOV... I disagree. Defining a name as equivalent to some natural-language phrase, without any idea what the phrase *really* means, doesn't contribute to the discussion. > 2. Relevant (functional) car features like speed, fuel > consumption, safety etc are *measurable*. Relevant features of > intelligence are unknown. I disagree. "Jeopardy!" is already a feature that can be measured, and in fact has been measured, where the computer did quite well. Task-test-sets exists for other kinds of problem-solving. For example, mathematical problem solving can be tested by questions from any of the High School math contest (University of Santa Clara), Putnam math contest (nationwide), or American Mathematical Monthly "Elementary Problems" (similar to high-end of high-school questions or low-end of Putnam questions. I propose that A.I. engineers who have not previously taken these tests, and in particular haven't seen the archives of past questions, but who are competant at high-school-graduate mathematics, should be shown the first set (one exam, i.e. one year of high school or Putnam, or one issue of Elementary Problems) of one of these sequences of prolem sets, and asked to devise a smart system that can solve these questions and "any similar". Then after verifying the smart system can indeed solve that one set of problems, feed it the second of the particular sequence and see how it does, probably not well at all. Then have engineeers upgrade the smart system until it is flexible enough to do a good job with both of those first two problem sets. Then test it on the third, whereupon it probably fails again. Iterate adding capability of handling one more single set then testing on the next one after it. If at some point it starts being able to solve problems it hasn't yet seen, from that same sequence, we'll consider that a success, otherwise if it needs upgrade for each new set of problems, then that's a failure. Google and Bing have been working on another test set, users' queries in their search engines, to try to present what the user really is asking about before the other keyword matches. Last I saw they haven't done a good job. But at least we have some sort of test set by which to measure their progress by user satisfaction vs. frustration, not a well-defined measure, but at least a crude way to tell if they are doing a good job or not. If they ever get to the point where I can ask a direct question to Google or Bing and get back as first response a direct and correct answer to my question, I'll consider that they have started to succeed. Question: Who invented LISP? Google: Lisp was originally created as a practical mathematical notation for computer programs, influenced by the notation of Alonzo Church's lambda calculus. It quickly ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisp_(programming_language) [Text excerpt doesn't answer question, but the linked WikiPedia article has enough information to construct the answer, as I've done later below.] Bing: Scheme is a statically scoped and properly tail-recursive dialect of the Lisp programming language invented by Guy Lewis Steele Jr. and Gerald Jay Sussman. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisp_(programming_language) [Text excerpt isn't even on the correct topic, namely the original invention of LISP, even though it links to same WikiPedia article as Google did.] Who invented the word LISP? ChaCha Answer: The word lisp has its origin in Old English and is taken from the word '-wlyspian'. www.chacha.com/question/who-invented-the-word-lisp [Seriously off-topic.] .. several answers later: John McCarthy, the researcher who invented LISP and coined the ... reddit: the front page of the internet ... use the following search parameters to narrow your results: reddit:{name} www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/loa5e/john_mccarthy_the_resear cher_who_invented_lisp [Half correct answer, then irrelevant reddit navigation text.] Correct answer: John McCarthy invented the concept of LISP as an adaption from Alonzo Church's lambda calculus, and then Steve Russell converted a modified form of that concept into a working implementation. Google-groups-search-key: imtrgfdi