Path: csiph.com!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!panix!.POSTED.spitfire.i.gajendra.net!not-for-mail From: cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) Newsgroups: comp.os.vms Subject: Re: Semper VMS - Nuclear Mode Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2025 10:16:08 -0000 (UTC) Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC Message-ID: <10dngp8$1k7$1@reader2.panix.com> References: <10dfric$2j5ee$1@dont-email.me> <68fe3672$0$668$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> <10dmk89$bj46$1@dont-email.me> Injection-Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2025 10:16:08 -0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: reader2.panix.com; posting-host="spitfire.i.gajendra.net:166.84.136.80"; logging-data="1671"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@panix.com" X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test77 (Sep 1, 2010) Originator: cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) Xref: csiph.com comp.os.vms:377991 In article <10dmk89$bj46$1@dont-email.me>, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >On 10/26/2025 9:56 PM, bill wrote: >> On 10/26/2025 10:55 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>> On 10/26/2025 8:35 AM, bill wrote: >>>> On 10/26/2025 6:42 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote: >>>>> On 2025-10-25 03:35, bill wrote: >>>>>> On 10/24/2025 1:34 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>>>>>> And it seems like a case where support does matter. >>>>>> >>>>>> The last mention of the PDP-11 in this kind of work was looking >>>>>> for people with MACRO-11 experience.  It would not surprise me >>>>>> to find out that no commercial OS is involved (possible no OS at >>>>>> all, just running an application on bare metal),  A VAX in the >>>>>> same environment could do the same. >>>>> >>>>> You need some PDP-11 OS running in order to use Macro-11. And unless >>>>> I remember wrong, at least Ontario Hydroelectric was/is running RSX. >>>> >>>> To do the development maybe.  But one can create programs in Macro-11 >>>> that run all by themselves on bare iron.  Fig Forth? >>> >>> Like VAXELN? >> >> I doubt VAXELN will run MACRO-11 or that it will run on a PDP-11. > >Of course not. > >But it sounds like the same deployment model. > >My understanding about VAXELN (based on what I have been told - no >personal experience) is that you link the OS into the application >and deploy the application (with embedded OS) directly on >the VAX. VAXELN is closer to VxWorks than to what Bill described. You do development on a computer running a general purpose OS, and link against their libraries and so on to generate an image you load onto the target machine, but the environment provides a small executive to handle task switching, event management, and so forth. I interpreted what Bill wrote as more like treating a PDP-11 as a glorified microcontroller: perhaps there's a very small boot loader in firmware, but after that, you're on your own; any support for multiple tasks that your application has is something that you provided; more generally, whatever abstractions you use are ones you provided yourself. You're writing your own interrupt handlers, and so. - Dan C.