Path: csiph.com!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.misty.com!border-2.nntp.ord.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!buffer2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!buffer1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.earthlink.com!news.earthlink.com.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2022 22:29:56 -0500 Subject: Re: COBOL and tricks Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.linux.misc References: <87sfn8pr5t.fsf@usenet.ankman.de> <2044901849.680728052.410272.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org> <06Gdnf3iSPC_InX_nZ2dnUU7-U_NnZ2d@earthlink.com> <506008721.681319132.143259.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org> From: "25B.Z969" <25B.Z969@noda.net> Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2022 23:29:55 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.13.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <506008721.681319132.143259.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: Lines: 108 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 98.77.165.113 X-Trace: sv3-xkD2bM+7wR6OqGnGzRiCzTx/62lzcQ82myOs3k9uFb8nAew8s0jXbhCFg4ucSNbOWN2ThYqVlVE0IZr!3mtBaR4KH6X0t7P0VMS7+nwGcO2vPidxK2YSx8xmk1gZUs5Uhr6O3NBmLNByoRDteV1MucQDFLyG!PTUyBdHpHldIgtnKydLA X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 X-Original-Bytes: 6154 Xref: csiph.com alt.folklore.computers:221675 comp.os.linux.misc:35397 On 8/4/22 11:23 AM, Peter Flass wrote: > 25B.Z969 <25B.Z969@noda.net> wrote: >> On 8/3/22 9:41 AM, Lew Pitcher wrote: >>> On Wed, 03 Aug 2022 01:07:52 -0400, 25B.Z969 wrote: >>> >>>> On 8/2/22 3:09 PM, Rich Alderson wrote: >>>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes: >>>>> >>>>>> "25B.Z959" <25B.Z959@nada.net> writes: >>>>> >>>>>>> Do you have something against those hardware geeks >>>>> >>>>>> I don't know what you're talking about. >>>>> >>>>> It's OK, Scott, neither does he. >>>> >>>> >>>> Oh, one of THOSE too I see .... :-) >>>> >>>> No hardware, no programs. It's all one thing >>>> bottom to top to bottom. Babbage would have >>>> got it ... >>> >>> Lack of hardware did not stop Lady Ada Lovelace >>> from writing programs for Charles Babbage's >>> (never-built) "Analytical Engine" >> >> Programs that DID nothing ...... just abstractions, >> short 'stories' to amuse a non-existent audience. >> >> These days the MONEY is in them DOING STUFF. >> >> I won't knock Babbage - he DID have it right, just >> lacked decent hardware. Lovelace saw it's possibilities >> even more than Babbage. Alas it was all for naught, >> an 'intellectual excercise' ........ >> >> Jobs or Woz ? I'll pick Woz - HE made it WORK. >> >> Yer tofu-burger relies on a VAST chain - from >> miners and geologists and farm-gurus to metallurgists >> and engineers who made possible the engines for the >> harvesters/processors/transport all the way on up >> to the COBOL handling the cash transactions. It's >> an INTEGRATED SYSTEM from one end to the other, all >> the SAME THING, different parts of the SAME ANIMAL. >> Can't remove any of the steps or it all falls apart. >> >> Maybe that Big Picture isn't so "important" ... well ... >> until one of those links in the chain fails ....... >> >> I hear GM now has over 100,000 vehicles just SITTING in >> storage because one link in their chain failed - can't >> get a few kinds of MPUs and sensor devices. I urged them >> to go back to analog ..... everybody seems *shocked* at >> the suggestion ... why, autos were IMPOSSIBLE before >> digital ya know :-) >> >> Oh well, THINK about it. One day ...... >> > > There are too many things you need digital for, from anti-lock brakes to > engine control. I drove cars for decades that didn't have those "luxury features" ...... they got you from A to B just fine, they WORKED, they could be MADE, SOLD and BOUGHT. > Apparently it’s impossible to meet current emission-control > standards without computers. So change those standards. Just takes a few pen-strokes from the right people - THAT simple. Actually with computer sims, much more efficient carburetors or mechanical injectors systems could be designed quickly - "less perfect" than digital, but not bad at all and NOT dependent on tech imported from enemy/vulnerable nations. The proverbial '57 Chevy was the right idea - but, given the times, not refined quite enough. > As one who has spent time doing a tune-up on > an “analog” engine, I think the current situation > is much better. No more fooling around with setting > points, etc. You really don't even need "points" - Google "magneto ignition". All small aircraft have TWO of them ... each wired to a different set of spark plugs. You are supposed to test each of them before take-off. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBEsrpSVFVY https://mechanicaljungle.com/magneto-ignition/ Modern magnetics can deliver a sharper, more robust spark than the old AlNiCo or iron magnets. Points/Distributors were invented because it was a little bit easier to vary the spark according to RPM and load conditions ... and you only needed 12volts and not an entire magneto - about the size of a small alternator. Yer lawnmower probably uses magneto ignition - it's just a magnet fitted into the flywheel that whizzes past a little coil. All very low-tech. No Chinese chips required. So it CAN be done, and WAS done for 100 years.