Path: csiph.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail From: rbowman Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.linux.misc Subject: Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Date: 8 Nov 2024 01:30:29 GMT Lines: 51 Message-ID: References: <1190130485.752353610.782141.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org> <38b4c4eb-2ab5-df94-0baa-c2d7fcdda60d@example.net> <0a299bb1-a543-4fc4-1d5f-44dc660bb256@example.net> <685000453.752623682.964071.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org> <451f3ed3-680f-4fa7-6ada-234110132590@example.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: individual.net 2y3B1RuPRzO4EJw9fGp4xwLlNuDZNRuX0Rl4jzQKdkLikbPfnH Cancel-Lock: sha1:rQ9Y89pBLT69VTb8eBxeoK9HA/M= sha256:GAY5ROQt5X/ImGlSL4U94zSHcRXIwfGoe69tJ/0fdJg= User-Agent: Pan/0.149 (Bellevue; 4c157ba) Xref: csiph.com alt.folklore.computers:228726 comp.os.linux.misc:60762 On Thu, 7 Nov 2024 21:27:25 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote: > In comp.os.linux.misc D wrote: >> Last, but not least, what is work? I'm sure that if you measure >> _effective_ work, you'll find the difference between a medieval peasant >> and a modern american far smaller, when coffee breaks, smoking breaks, >> vacations, are deducted. > > There is also a huge difference between 8hrs on a computer shuffling > electronic paper back and forth vs. 8hrs tending a farm's fields and > animals because those very fields and animals are all that stand between > you and starvation come the middle of Februrary when snow and ice > abound, but little plant life grows. > > Even modern jobs that are considered "manual labor" by today's standards > in the US are quite different vs. the mideval peasant who's very > survival into next summer depends upon being able to squeeze, and > preserve, enough food to survive through the long cold winter. > > Now, if you mean "time spent actually doing work", well the pessant > likely spent more time actually doing "work". Possibly but you have to take into account the agrarian cycle. There are bursts of activity like plowing and planting when the peasant works from can see to can't see. When the seeds are in the ground there isn't much to do. Historically that's why summertime was favored for war. Freezing to death outside of Stalingrad or getting bogged down in the springtime mud is a new twist. A good war is scheduled between the time the crops are planted and when they are ready for harvest. Harvest is another one of those work yourself ragged events. You need to get the crops in, processed, and stored before bad weather. After harvest you cross your fingers you have enough food for yourself and the animals as well as firewood, and plan for a few months of downtime to repair tack and other equipment, tell stories, and so forth. Hunters and gatherers also had their cycles. A herring or salmon run isn't like the grocery store being open 24/7/365, nor are there always berries in the produce section, or fresh meat. One indicator for me among the Native Americans is the decorative arts. Prior to the whites and their beads similar work was done by dyeing and folding porcupine quills. Other decorations might involve harvesting mussel shells, drilling them, and grinding them down into bangles. Even decorative designs on pottery is above the utilitarian needs of people living hand to mouth.