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Re: SIGSALY - Ultimate 1940s Tech

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On 9/6/25 6:28 PM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sat, 6 Sep 2025 12:43:30 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, 6 Sep 2025 06:53:13 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>> Would seem to suffer from the same flaw as XOR encryption: if you
>>> know what some part of the message is, you could replace that part
>>> with something else.
>>
>> there wasn't even the ability to record such stuff easily available
>> for post processing
> 
> The article says a lot of it was. Remember, the Germans invented
> magnetic tape.

   Yep. WAS oxide-coated PAPER tape, but nevertheless.

   Not sure when polymer 'tape' came into the picture,
   but surely after WW2. Plastics came into their own
   during the war, mostly as RF insulation. "Polythene",
   polyethylene, was first used as the insulating layer
   in coax - for high-freq radar apps.

   Maybe the BEST way to record in high detail at the time
   was the mech for recording sound on movie film. Fairly
   hi-fi, not hard, made a long-lasting record.

   So yea, they COULD have post-analyzed the 'secure'
   transmissions. Neither NAZIs or Japanese were stupid.

> There was also the possibility of replay attacks. E.g. “Ignore
> previous message, new instructions follow”.

   Would have been much easier than inserting false 'speech'
   in mid-stream real-time.

   However, how the system was USED, a later "ignore"
   order would have been irrelevant, known false.

> I agree this is all with the benefit of hindsight, which is always 6/6

   Hey, it was weird and complex - but, at least for the
   egos of the leaders, worked.

   BUT, assuming post-analysis could not break the
   'encryption' .... wrong. Discussions would have
   to be rather trivial.

   Wonder how much $$$ 'trivial' COST ?

   Spread-spectrum and digital ... 10-15 years on
   minimum before practical. The theory was there,
   but the MEANS .......

   Thank you Hedy Lamar.

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SIGSALY - Ultimate 1940s Tech c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-09-05 07:12 -0400
  Re: SIGSALY - Ultimate 1940s Tech 🇵🇱Jacek Marcin Jaworski🇵🇱 <jaworski1978@adres.pl> - 2025-09-05 16:05 +0200
    Re: SIGSALY - Ultimate 1940s Tech Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-06 06:53 +0000
      Re: SIGSALY - Ultimate 1940s Tech c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-09-06 06:42 -0400
        Re: SIGSALY - Ultimate 1940s Tech The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-06 12:43 +0100
          Re: SIGSALY - Ultimate 1940s Tech c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-09-06 14:40 -0400
          Re: SIGSALY - Ultimate 1940s Tech Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-06 22:28 +0000
            Re: SIGSALY - Ultimate 1940s Tech c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-09-07 03:34 -0400

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