Path: csiph.com!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!reader5.news.weretis.net!news.solani.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Aidan Kehoe Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,alt.usage.english Subject: Re: GNU Followup-To: alt.usage.english Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2026 20:35:17 +0000 Message-ID: <874imqt5yy.fsf@parhasard.net> References: <10oab0q$39n4f$6@dont-email.me> <10ocqti$4fas$3@dont-email.me> <10od9kg$9cih$1@dont-email.me> <10odne1$d647$1@dont-email.me> <10odnsi$d647$2@dont-email.me> <10odop7$djnv$1@dont-email.me> <10odsq2$er59$1@dont-email.me> <1772787512-12588@newsgrouper.org> <10oeeru$kih0$1@dont-email.me> <10oeiea$lo5g$2@dont-email.me> <6our7mxi9i.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <10oh35t$1g6or$1@dont-email.me> <10oh7cm$1h8of$1@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: solani.org; logging-data="1514029"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@news.solani.org" User-Agent: Gnus/5.101 (Gnus v5.10.10) XEmacs/21.5-b36 (Linux-aarch64) Cancel-Lock: sha1:g56DG+dmUQPHpk/XLtTH5j+uI88= sha1:KEF7ikkn8xD4k/zCqqEey7sFV38= X-User-ID: eJwFwQkBwDAIA0BLpSU8chgQ/xJ2h2di7WowBcHdzU5tic6LVR9W3zxyHEXaW04FZjKF/sUPMcgR4Q== Xref: csiph.com comp.os.linux.misc:82665 alt.usage.english:1138943 Ar an seachtú lá de mí Márta, scríobh rbowman: > On Sat, 7 Mar 2026 13:57:58 +0100, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote: > > > Den 07.03.2026 kl. 13.01 skrev Carlos E.R.: > > > >>> I have learnt a bit of Spanish in  a course of one year, weekly > >>> sessions. I can't make the rr-sound unless I produce a hurricane of > >>> air. One of my daughters (or both?) can make that sound as quiet as > >>> she likes, and so can her eldest son. So I don't think that it's so > >>> much a question of previous language as the genetic abality to move > >>> your tongue in different ways. But of course, if I had been born in a > >>> Spanish- speaking country I would have learnt through practise. > >>> > >>> > >> No, I don't think it is genetic. It is a learned ability when we are > >> babies. > > > > To the best of my knowledge my daughter has never practised the sound. > > It doesn't exist in Danish and she has not learnt Spanish or another > > language with the rr-sound. The same goes for my grandson. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QXJ3OXWaOY > > No way can I get that purring sound out of 'Messer' and other words with > 'r'. It might be a stylistic affectation. The alveolar trill (that purring sound) is otherwise foreign to the German of Germany but there is a school of thought that endorses it for singing, since it carries (in the presence of the audience) a bit better than the uvular trill that is standard. It was more common in the past and, meinem Verständnis nach, there are likely pockets in Austria and further east (if there are any native-German-speaking communities left further east) that still have it. Of course standard German is non-rhotic (in English terms), so the normal way to say „Messer“ is [ˈmɛsɐ], roughly “MESSah” if you don’t know the IPA. Don’t look to Bertolt Brecht (died: 1956) for how to speak normal everyday German in 2026. > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeQG5rv592Q > > Whole different style but you don't hear a rolling 'r' in 'er', 'trägt' > and other words that are in the 1931 movie version. Yes; she’s much closer to an unmarked normal German of Germany today. -- ‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out / How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’ (C. Moore)