Message-ID: <62fc8cb3@news.ausics.net> From: Computer Nerd Kev Subject: Re: MX Linux has an old-school look and feel. Here's why it's so popular Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc References: <0ac05b8c-01d1-4f5a-ac35-8888f44a20abn@googlegroups.com> <62f97fdd@news.ausics.net> <62fc1c8d@news.ausics.net> User-Agent: tin/2.0.1-20111224 ("Achenvoir") (UNIX) (Linux/2.4.31 (i686)) NNTP-Posting-Host: news.ausics.net Date: 17 Aug 2022 16:37:39 +1000 Organization: Ausics - https://www.ausics.net Lines: 112 X-Complaints: abuse@ausics.net Path: csiph.com!news.bbs.nz!news.ausics.net!not-for-mail Xref: csiph.com comp.os.linux.misc:35479 25B.Z969 <25B.Z969@noda.net> wrote: > On 8/16/22 6:39 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote: >> 25B.Z969 <25B.Z969@noda.net> wrote: >>> On 8/14/22 7:06 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote: >>> >>>> I tried going down both paths (installing Devuan via Star Linux, >>>> which is mainly just a more stripped-down distro than the official >>>> Devuan release). Devuan has been OK, except that there aren't any >>>> official package repo mirrors in Australia, >>> >>> Um .. really doesn't matter if they're on Mars at this point ... >> >> Maybe not for the download speeds, but the delay for the >> request-response round trip is much higher when dealing with >> servers on the other side of the world. When downloading hundreds >> of packages, that delay occours for each package, and can take >> longer than the download itself for small ones. > > I understand that - had satellite internet back when > it was popular. Send packet, wait for packet to go > up 33,000 miles, go down 33,000 miles, then the > confirm took the reverse route. Not exactly "snappy", > but then web pages were SMALL at the time . Yes I had that too. Newer satellite systems have somehow reduced the delay, though it's still significantly more laggy than mobile (which I use now instead). > But these days ? I regularly use European repos from > the USA. Seems about as fast as something very local. > Why is Australia any different ? No fiber-op from > the continent ? Deliberate throttling ? I dunno, but I'd guess that Europe - USA is the best intercontinental link around. If you're using servers that are slow themselves then that also swamps the difference. Anyway it's perceptible just by browsing the repo directories in Dillo at AU Vs USA mirrors. Not worth worrying about with that, but the delay adds up quick when you're requesting all the packages for a full OS version upgrade. If you use HTTPS then the encryption adds another variable that might skew your results. >>>> but I haven't attempted >>>> a OS version upgrade with it yet. With AntiX I have attempted an >>>> upgrade, and spent a few hours in dependency hell because the >>>> package managers (when apt-get failed, I moved to Aptitude) tended >>>> to select newer Systemd-based packages on the Debian servers >>>> instead of the AntiX ones when resolving dependencies. At the same >>>> time I couldn't just remove the Debian repos from >>>> /etc/apt/sources.list because most of the other dependencies were >>>> only on the Debian servers, so the only way to go was to take >>>> things one error message at a time and select all the >>>> Systemd-related package versions manually (geeze it's wormed its >>>> way into a lot of stuff!). >>> >>> Antix IS a bit "marginal" and you've gotta do extra >>> work to get exactly the packages you want. Apt and >>> Aptitude CAN offer finer control than apt-get, but >>> there are LOTS of fiddly params and often fer-crap >>> documentation/examples to go by. >> >> If there's a package manager that has a setting for preferencing >> packages from a particular server, or with the "nosystemd" label, >> no matter how deep it's burried in the docs, that would solve the >> problem. But I tried looking for that myself and failed to come up >> with anything. > > I never recall SEEING a "No Systemd" in any of the docs. The "nosystemd" label is an AntiX addition to Debian's "dev", "main", and "nonfree". Here it is on one of AntiX's frustratingly existant (given the Devuan situation) Australian mirror sites: http://mirror.datamossa.io/mxlinux/antix/bullseye/pool/nosystemd/ So I was looking for a way to tell a package manager to prefer the packages from "/nosystemd", but still use other packages where none of the "nosystemd" ones fulfill the dependency. Seems like it should be an option, but no dice. > Fact is that systemd has so thoroughly permeated the > LinuScape that the package writers now just ASSUME you > will have it and want it. Their set-up scripts just > start writing stuff to /etc/systemd/system and will > get confused if systemctl and those folders aren't > there. Some may just INSTALL systemd to resolve their > little problems. It will be like that more and more. > > As Devuan and a few others make their name by NOT > using systemd, I think it's up to them to provide > the systemd-less repositories. Even thus, there > comes a point where porting those systemd-loving > utilities/apps back to init.d will become too > much of a chore. That's the facts as I see them. That fear is old now and I haven't seen it surface in practice with anything that I want to run. Mind you software by Systemd-lovers is likely to be dismissed by me for other reasons anyway. > So perhaps being systemd-free is a temporary illusion ? > Better tools to fully visualize/catalog what systemd > is DOING might be the better way. Keep the Devil in > FRONT of you, so you can see what he's up to ... Well I like to be able to change what he's up to by editing a shell script, so on that basis it's irreconcilable and I'll just have to use FreeDOS instead - Hello AUTOEXEC.BAT! :) -- __ __ #_ < |\| |< _#