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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #87478

Re: Redundancy/Survival

From "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Newsgroups comp.os.linux.misc
Subject Re: Redundancy/Survival
Date 2026-06-04 07:36 +0200
Organization Tebibyte_Retro_Gaming
Message-ID <4gf7fmxo8g.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> (permalink)
References (9 earlier) <scn3fmxols.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <10vp49g$3io0e$5@dont-email.me> <ri46fmx7a6.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <10vpts4$3tl9m$1@dont-email.me> <10vqu43$4r3b$3@dont-email.me>

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On 2026-06-04 06:15, Rich wrote:
> Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2026-06-03, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>
>>> On 2026-06-03 13:48, Nuno Silva wrote:
>>>> On 2026-06-02, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>>> For example, if there is a village with 200 inhabitants with a small
>>>>> shop and a bar, those places need internet in order to be able to
>>>>> accept plastic card payments. And considering there is not a bank at
>>>>> the site to get cash to pay, the villagers have to pay with
>>>>> plastic. Or the visitors.
>>>>
>>>> (Out of curiosity, if Visa and Mastercard cards are common in .es: Is
>>>> there no way to process card payments off-line in such towns?)
>>>
>>> Apparently not. Maybe because the majority are debit cards, not credit
>>> cards. But I have seen nobody with that paper thing that was used to
>>> print a charge paper with the relief letters/numbers on the
>>> cards. Cards no longer have relief lettering.
>>
>> This isn't about relief lettering at all, but whether the card itself
>> requires on-line transactions, where (probably among other things) funds
>> are normally expected to be guaranteed as available to approve the
>> transaction. This used to be the key difference between Visa Debit and
>> Visa Electron, for example.
> 
> In the US, both Debit and Credit cards work very similarily (from the
> customer using the card point of view) other than Debit cards often
> require entry of a PIN as part of the transaction.
> 
> But both have limited to no usefulness without network connectivity to
> "run the purchase" unless (as ChatGPT said) the merchants agreement
> with the network allows for the merchant to collect the card info and
> only later process each transaction.  And I would presume that if the
> merchant's agreement allows the "collect info, process over network
> later" mode, that the agreement also foists a significant amount of the
> transaction risk onto the merchant as well, further discuraging many
> from choosing this route.

There should be no risk with credit cards, that's what they were 
designed for.


But there would be need for some special "hardware" at the merchant, 
able to store and forward later the transactions.

But then, some rural sites have never internet. Not intermittent.


> 
>>> This is still possible in some circumstances, but it's much less
>>> common than it used to be because fraud controls are stricter.
>>
>> This is what's puzzling me now, given both Visa and Mastercard actually
>> did away with their on-line cards - or is this because the off-line
>> cards have changed and now act more like on-line cards?
> 
> Not sure what you mean by Visa or Mastercard "on-line cards".

debit.

> 
> As to standard credit cards, they are, for all intents and purposes,
> always processed anymore via instant network transaction through the
> payment rails to the issuing bank.  No one writes down or otherwise
> records anything from the cards.  One either "chips" or "NFC" taps the
> card, the machine pops "approved" or "denied", and if approved, the
> transaction is already listed in your account at the point you see
> "approved" on the charge card terminal.
> 

Except if you choose "credit". They charge end of month or whatever you 
have agreed.

>>> So the answer is: **yes, card payments can sometimes be made while
>>> offline, but whether a particular restaurant can do it depends on its
>>> payment terminal configuration and the payment provider's rules.**
>>> Many modern terminals will simply refuse the transaction if they
>>> cannot reach the authorization network.
>>
>> This also puzzles me, because I was under the impression credit cards
>> have been expected to allow off-line transactions. (And, after all,
>> being *credit* cards, allowing transactions without sufficient funds
>> would be a - or perhaps *the* - feature?)
> 
> Not from the issuing banks perspective.  Their "fraud detection
> algorithms" work by seeing the transactions as they come over the rails
> (not by batch processing them 12 hours later).  So effectively, even if
> credit cards still might officially support a "no network use" mode, it
> is all but never used anymore.

Mmm.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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Thread

Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 02:21 -0400
  Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 08:46 +0200
    Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-26 09:49 +0200
      Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:47 -0400
      Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:25 +0200
      Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-26 09:53 +0000
    Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:38 -0400
      Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:35 +0200
      Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-26 22:09 +0000
        Re: Redundancy/Survival John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-26 16:17 -0700
          Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-27 00:02 +0000
            Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-27 00:11 -0400
              Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-28 10:32 +0200
            Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 08:41 +0100
              Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-27 11:04 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:31 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 09:18 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-28 13:42 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 15:01 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 21:34 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 11:07 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 12:55 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 12:14 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 13:36 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 13:26 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:36 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 17:24 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:37 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:36 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 22:34 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 04:29 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:09 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 23:29 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-05-31 21:45 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:15 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-01 18:53 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-02 01:46 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-02 03:01 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:12 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 10:16 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:09 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 21:26 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:48 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:35 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 17:25 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-04 03:51 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-04 04:30 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-04 09:34 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-04 16:06 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-04 20:20 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-04 18:27 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-04 09:30 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 19:24 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 20:04 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 22:25 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-04 04:15 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-04 07:36 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 02:19 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-04 08:34 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 10:26 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-06-04 08:18 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-04 09:48 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 10:36 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-04 17:58 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 14:56 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-04 22:07 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 22:18 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-05 03:40 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-05 00:29 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-05 07:06 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-05 04:11 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-05 17:17 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-06 00:10 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-06 05:16 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-06 01:46 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-06 19:40 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-05 00:13 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-06-05 03:12 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-05 00:15 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-07 13:25 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-07 19:54 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-08 00:37 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-07 19:18 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-08 00:42 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-05 04:26 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-06-06 03:10 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-06 05:41 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-06 01:52 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-06 20:03 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-06-07 03:16 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-06 11:47 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-06-07 03:20 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-07 04:59 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-07 19:27 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-08 00:50 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 23:38 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-05 06:48 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-05 03:05 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-08 00:52 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-08 09:33 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-08 23:19 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-09 10:50 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-09 11:45 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-05 19:21 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-06 00:36 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-06 05:51 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-06 02:26 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-06 20:12 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-06-07 03:11 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-05 03:51 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-05 01:47 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-05 19:21 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-02 02:58 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-02 11:11 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-02 22:15 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 22:32 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 02:33 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:57 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:40 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-04 09:31 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-29 04:30 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:34 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:36 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 00:38 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-05-31 05:09 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 03:10 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-05-31 07:14 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-01 00:49 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-01 04:57 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 03:20 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 19:45 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 18:30 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:27 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 10:49 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 13:16 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 00:00 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:43 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:35 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:21 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 18:25 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 21:36 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:06 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:32 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:43 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 13:05 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:14 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:31 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:43 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 19:28 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 20:10 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-03 18:00 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 22:27 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:13 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:48 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-03 18:58 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:46 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-01 19:00 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-06-02 17:44 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 17:54 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 16:57 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 21:02 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:41 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:13 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:47 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-04 01:01 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-03 21:18 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-04 04:30 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-04 18:02 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-04 07:44 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-04 09:48 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 00:26 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-04 07:53 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:49 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 01:03 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-04 10:07 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 10:57 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-04 16:31 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 12:08 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-05 11:34 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-05 22:31 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-06 05:48 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-06 01:56 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-06 19:56 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-07 05:40 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-07 19:25 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-06-07 20:37 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-08 00:57 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-08 00:23 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-08 14:45 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-09 02:36 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-09 11:30 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-08 01:00 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-08 00:38 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-08 16:50 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-09 02:42 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-06-09 04:12 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-09 03:15 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-04 18:13 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 15:03 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-04 22:27 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 22:45 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-05 04:42 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-05 02:01 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:10 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 22:29 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:52 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-04 19:18 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-04 21:28 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-03 18:00 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-06-05 03:14 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-05 00:25 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-05 07:20 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-05 04:15 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-05 12:33 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-06-05 11:55 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-05 19:21 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-05 22:01 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-05 22:15 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-06 05:53 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-06 12:01 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-07 05:08 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-07 20:40 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-08 00:44 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-07 23:06 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-08 04:36 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-08 00:43 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-08 09:08 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-08 09:29 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-08 22:26 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-08 14:34 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-05 19:21 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-06 00:23 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-06 18:52 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-06 00:43 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:49 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 00:30 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-04 07:55 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-04 09:51 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:56 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-03 18:00 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 02:11 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 02:17 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 03:50 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-01 01:07 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:47 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 17:36 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:33 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:25 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 02:12 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:03 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:06 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 00:46 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-04 08:09 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-08 21:49 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:02 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-03 18:00 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 22:31 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-04 01:36 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:26 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 17:31 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:49 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:37 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-30 09:09 +1000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:17 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-31 07:33 +1000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 00:14 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-31 12:09 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-01 00:51 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:28 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-31 12:58 +0200
              Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-27 20:51 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-27 14:02 -0700
                Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-28 08:54 +1000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-28 05:04 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:54 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-05-28 09:15 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:29 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-28 13:45 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-29 02:50 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:17 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:48 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 04:25 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:20 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-30 14:16 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-30 04:00 +0000
          Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 23:41 -0400
            Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 14:09 +0100
              Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:51 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-28 17:08 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 22:14 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 04:41 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:53 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:32 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:19 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:52 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:46 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-03 00:27 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 03:26 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-03 21:30 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-04 04:30 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-04 08:13 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 03:03 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:12 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:08 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:33 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:45 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:08 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:55 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-02 10:39 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 13:21 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:57 +0000
        Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 22:39 -0400
          Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 14:10 +0100
            Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-28 09:05 +1000
              Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 08:19 +0100
            Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:52 -0400
              Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 09:20 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 20:34 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-05-28 21:07 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:40 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-01 19:12 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 10:28 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 12:15 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 16:19 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:30 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:29 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 16:49 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:18 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-06-02 17:38 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 15:48 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 00:39 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 17:55 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 16:03 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 12:22 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 16:36 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:39 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 00:48 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 01:21 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 02:08 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:41 +0000
              Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:23 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 23:00 +0200
  Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-26 09:44 +0200
    Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:45 -0400
    Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:38 +0200
  Re: Redundancy/Survival "Worst Case" <fritz@spamexpire-202605.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2026-05-26 17:21 +0200

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