Path: csiph.com!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!i2pn.org!i2pn2.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: D Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Off Topic-Re: GNOME bans Manjaro Core Team Member for uttering "Lunduke" Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2024 22:11:35 +0200 Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org) Message-ID: <375d613a-6f70-ced5-ef49-dfd3c972b049@example.net> References: <0eu5ajde36dcdcipbu3eb7cllkn5t11ijd@4ax.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="8323328-2015042637-1722456697=:3881" Injection-Info: i2pn2.org; logging-data="1021546"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@i2pn2.org"; posting-account="w/4CleFT0XZ6XfSuRJzIySLIA6ECskkHxKUAYDZM66M"; X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.0 In-Reply-To: Xref: csiph.com comp.os.linux.advocacy:661610 comp.os.linux.misc:57522 alt.folklore.computers:226223 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --8323328-2015042637-1722456697=:3881 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Wed, 31 Jul 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> By the very nature of them being unanswerable, the connection between them >> and the world is nil. > > Completely wrong. > Consider the statement 'everything is caused by some other things' Already here we go wrong. Since we do not know _everything_, that statement makes no sense. Let me instead focus on the question, can we prove causation. I offer the following: Randomized Controlled Trials (RCTs): The gold standard for proving causation is through randomized controlled experiments. In an RCT, participants are randomly assigned to either a treatment group or a control group. This randomization helps ensure that any differences in outcomes can be attributed solely to the treatment being tested, thus providing strong evidence for causality. Observational Studies with Instrumental Variables: When RCTs are not feasible, researchers often rely on observational studies. Here, identifying instrumental variables—factors that influence the treatment but do not directly affect the outcome—can help establish causal relationships. For example, if a new policy is implemented at a specific time affecting only certain groups, comparing outcomes before and after can provide insights into causal effects. > > This assumption cannot be proved to be true. It is a metaphysical statement, > and yet it is the basis for all classical science. I already disagreed with your sentence, and offered 2 ways in which we can prove causation. >> We have hypothesis and experiment that tells >> us there is an external world which such certainty, that the burden of >> proof is on the one who does not believe in the external world, to disprove >> the external world, and no one has so far succeeded at that. >> > > Irrelevant in this context. An external world is a simple way to explain our > lack of total freedom to be what we want and experience what we want. Doesnt > mean its true, juts means its a very good and useful explanation. If you do not accept it, then you have the burden of proof. Prove to me an alternative to the external world, and I'll gladly read this first break through in philosophy since it began. Meanwhlie, in terms of the external world, let me present you to G.E. Moore and the "hand". The argument takes the following form: Here is one hand, And here is another. There are at least two external objects in the world. Therefore, an external world exists. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Here_is_one_hand . >> Metaphysics, at least on usenet, tends to devolve into solipsism or >> aggressive skepticism, which is a dead end. > > Not with me it don't. Yes. > In fact in the context of the application of belief systems and anti-science > to today's political landscape, if you don't understand it, you are a bit > fucked, frankly. I'm not talking about it. You have Moores answer above. QED. If it was good enough for a Professor of Philosophy at the University of Cambridge, it's good enough for me. --8323328-2015042637-1722456697=:3881--