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Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal)

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From John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.os.linux.misc, alt.folklore.computers
Subject Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal)
Date Mon, 12 Jan 2026 09:14:56 -0800
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On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 02:42:42 -0000 (UTC)
antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) wrote:

> Now, concerning burst: AFAIK AI companies use investment money to
> cover cost of operation (whole or in significant part).  If there
> is burst, they will have to stop operating literally closing
> their datacenters.  Basically only things that generate profits
> or possibly some research by companies that have other sources of
> income and still want to continue research.  But that would be
> at much lower scale than currently.

This is the key point on which the "but the tech will remain!" argument
founders. It's not just that research will stop being funded, but that
it costs so much just to *run* that the only thing keeping the lights
on is regular infusions of billions in investor cash - and, in OpenAI's
case, generous subsidies on raw compute from M$.

Once *that* dries up, they're either going to have to magically become
orders of magnitude more efficient (which they've showed *absolutely*
no aptitude for - and China had a good laugh pantsing our tech sector
on that score last spring, but it's sounding post-fact like their gains
were, um, not as impressive as they'dve liked everyone to think) or
price to reflect the *real* cost of operations - and if they can only
get a fraction of their userbase to pay $200/mo. for a Magical Chatbot
Friend, good freakin' luck squeezing any more blood from *that* turnip.

The much likelier scenario is that when the funding stops flowing in
and the business plan fails to advance from "???" to "profit!" things
will just...*stop.*

Obviously, it'll still be *possible* to write this kind of software and
run it in a slower, more limited context on stock hardware (high-end
GPUs will be going *real* cheap for a while, but they also cost so much
to run and require so much infrastructure that it's questionable how
cost-effective it'll be to reuse them,) and possibly the tech will find
its niche in certain fields (as "expert systems" did after the first
"AI winter,") but the economics of doing "generative AI" at global
scale are simply *insane,* and the current offerings in their present
form simply will not survive once taken off VC life support.

(Again, I'll recommend Ed Zitron on this, who has written *extensively*
about it over the past couple years, and has done a lot to break down
how much it actually *costs* - https://www.wheresyoured.at/oai_docs/ )

> But there were attempts to replace a lot of professionals,
> notably programmers.  Examples indicate that "AI" can create
> small, trival pieces of code but does not really work for
> bigger and more complex things.  To be useful for programming "AI"
> and way it is used must be significantly improved.  It is possible
> that slower, gradual improvement will lead to "useful AI".
> But it is also possible that alternative approaches, currently
> underfunded due to AI race, will progress and be used insted
> of "AI".
> 
> [...]
> 
> So, it looks that for general AI we are missing something
> important.  For applications ANN apparently struggle with
> tasks that have easy algorithmic solution.  So natural way
> forward with applications seem to be via hybrid approaches.
> But AI crowd seem to prefer pure ANN solutions and tries
> to brute-force problems using more compute power.

Exactly. It's entirely possible that programming twenty years from now
will look very different from programming today, and there *may* come a
point where we "crack" using ML techniques for software development in
a productive, reliable way - but it's *not* gonna come from the current
crop of clowns, nor through burning infinite money on throwing *MOAR
COMPUTE!!!1one* at the same stupid "solution."

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Re: naughty Pascal Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-05 12:33 -0700
  Re: naughty Pascal John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-05 11:50 -0800
    Re: naughty Pascal John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-05 13:37 -0800
      Re: naughty Pascal "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-01-06 13:19 +0100
        Re: naughty Pascal John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-06 08:30 -0800
          Re: naughty Pascal cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-06 17:04 +0000
          Re: naughty Pascal c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-01-06 16:30 -0500
            Re: naughty Pascal "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-01-07 13:40 +0100
              Re: naughty Pascal Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-07 07:47 -0700
                Re: naughty Pascal The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-07 20:08 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-07 20:18 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-08 04:57 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-01-08 00:36 -0500
                Re: naughty Pascal Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-08 07:00 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-08 08:33 -0800
                Re: naughty Pascal Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-08 20:00 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-08 20:21 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-08 22:45 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-08 23:52 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-09 16:03 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-08 07:51 -0700
          Re: naughty Pascal "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-01-07 13:38 +0100
            Re: naughty Pascal rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-07 22:03 +0000
              Re: naughty Pascal Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-07 19:21 -0700
                Re: naughty Pascal Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-08 02:26 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-01-07 23:20 -0500
                Re: naughty Pascal The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-08 11:20 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-08 08:34 -0800
                Re: naughty Pascal c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-01-08 20:19 -0500
                Re: naughty Pascal rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-09 01:42 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-09 09:57 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-08 14:43 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-01-08 20:15 -0500
                Re: naughty Pascal rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-09 01:44 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-09 09:56 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-08 19:28 -0700
                Re: naughty Pascal Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-08 07:47 -0700
                Re: naughty Pascal rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-08 19:52 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-08 22:45 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-09 01:35 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-09 10:02 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-09 08:16 -0700
                Re: naughty Pascal The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-09 18:46 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-09 20:40 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-09 20:38 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-09 20:56 -0700
                Re: naughty Pascal The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-10 10:58 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-10 03:12 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-10 19:39 +0000
                Re: naughty useless code (was Re: naughty Pascal) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-10 20:52 +0000
                Re: naughty useless code (was Re: naughty Pascal) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-11 00:02 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-09 16:04 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-01-08 20:54 -0500
                Re: naughty Pascal rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-09 06:36 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-09 08:13 -0700
                Re: Naughty PL/I (was Re: naughty Pascal) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-09 18:38 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-01-10 14:40 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-10 20:50 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-01-11 02:00 -0500
                Re: naughty Pascal Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-11 16:55 +0000
                Re: Naughty Fortran (was Re: naughty Pascal) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-11 20:24 +0000
                Re: Naughty Fortran (was Re: naughty Pascal) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-01-11 18:00 -0500
                Re: naughty Pascal rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-11 21:31 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-08 19:49 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-01-08 20:43 -0500
                Re: naughty Pascal Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-10 19:39 +0000
                Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-10 20:47 +0000
                Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-11 00:27 +0000
                Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-10 18:41 -0800
                Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-10 20:06 -0700
                Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-01-10 22:44 -0500
                Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-11 07:40 -0700
                Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-11 03:50 +0000
                Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal) Harold Stevens <wookie@aspen.localdomain> - 2026-01-11 05:55 -0600
                Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-01-11 14:18 +0000
                Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal) Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2026-01-11 17:00 +0100
                Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-11 20:44 +0000
                Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-12 11:49 +0000
                Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-12 07:52 -0700
                Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-12 17:03 +0000
                Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-12 19:57 +0000
                Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-12 20:05 +0000
                Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal) Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-01-12 20:16 +0000
                Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-13 05:01 +0000
                Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal) Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-01-13 06:31 +0000
                Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-13 08:09 +0000
                Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal) Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2026-01-13 14:21 +0000
                Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-13 17:54 +0000
                Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-13 04:46 +0000
                Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-13 04:31 +0000
                Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-12 19:56 +0000
                Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-13 00:24 +0000
                Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-13 00:36 +0000
                Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-01-12 23:04 -0500
                Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-01-11 01:52 -0500
                Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-10 23:34 -0800
                Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-01-11 02:50 -0500
                Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal) Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-01-11 14:55 +0000
                Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-01-12 02:42 +0000
                Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-12 07:50 -0700
                Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-12 09:14 -0800
                Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-12 13:12 -0700
                Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal) Harold Stevens <wookie@aspen.localdomain> - 2026-01-12 14:48 -0600
                Re: naughty C (was Re: naughty Pascal) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-11 07:48 -0700
                Re: naughty Pascal antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-01-11 01:32 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-11 11:21 +0000
        Re: naughty Pascal rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-06 19:22 +0000
          Re: naughty Pascal "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-01-07 13:41 +0100
    Re: naughty Pascal Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-05 21:42 +0000
      Re: naughty Pascal Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-05 20:33 -0700
        Re: naughty Pascal c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-01-05 22:58 -0500
    Re: naughty Pascal Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-05 20:27 -0700
      Re: naughty Pascal c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-01-05 22:54 -0500
        Re: naughty Pascal Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-06 07:40 -0700
      Re: naughty Pascal Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-06 04:09 +0000
      Re: naughty Pascal The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-06 10:10 +0000
        Re: naughty Pascal Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-06 07:46 -0700
          Re: naughty Pascal The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-06 17:19 +0000
            Re: naughty Pascal Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-01-06 12:39 -0700
            Re: naughty Pascal cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-06 19:56 +0000
              Re: naughty Pascal Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-07 06:33 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-07 09:44 +0000
          Re: naughty Pascal Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-06 19:57 +0000
            Re: naughty Pascal scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-06 21:53 +0000
        Re: naughty Pascal rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-06 19:17 +0000
        Re: naughty Pascal c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-01-06 16:06 -0500
          Re: naughty Pascal cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-01-06 23:44 +0000
            Re: naughty Pascal The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-07 09:57 +0000
          Re: naughty Pascal The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-07 09:56 +0000
            Re: naughty Pascal rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-07 22:08 +0000
              Re: naughty Pascal The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-08 11:21 +0000
            Re: naughty Pascal Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-08 04:57 +0000
              Re: naughty Pascal c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-01-08 00:41 -0500
              Re: naughty Pascal The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-08 11:26 +0000
              Re: naughty Pascal rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-08 19:59 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-01-08 22:45 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-01-08 21:00 -0500
              Re: naughty Pascal rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-08 20:00 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-08 20:09 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-09 02:02 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-09 10:05 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-09 16:02 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-09 18:48 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-01-09 20:27 +0000
                Re: naughty Pascal The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-10 10:15 +0000
      Re: naughty Pascal scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-06 15:31 +0000
    Re: naughty Pascal Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-01-06 10:39 +0000
      Re: naughty Pascal John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-01-06 09:25 -0800
  Re: naughty Pascal scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-01-05 20:35 +0000
    Re: naughty Pascal "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-01-06 13:25 +0100
      Re: naughty Pascal Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-01-06 20:00 +0000

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