Path: csiph.com!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!nntp.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: John Ames Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: naughty Pascal Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2026 11:50:58 -0800 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 20 Message-ID: <20260105115058.000054fc@gmail.com> References: <10iu02q$1029n$12@dont-email.me> <10iu3g7$11u10$3@dont-email.me> <10iutjt$1c0aq$2@dont-email.me> <79ScnZHy-uXnP8n0nZ2dnZfqnPadnZ2d@giganews.com> <4oycne7Wk4RQ6sj0nZ2dnZfqnPidnZ2d@giganews.com> <10j48fv$2t1h9$12@dont-email.me> <10j5qgf$3etcd$6@dont-email.me> <10j60bb$3hhps$1@dont-email.me> <7cadnTBwKKzA68r0nZ2dnZfqn_idnZ2d@giganews.com> <10jak55$13ji1$2@dont-email.me> <10jh3n1$3644m$1@nntp.eternal-september.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2026 19:51:03 +0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: nntp.eternal-september.org; posting-host="b2391d08a3fc6e672fef609ec53bb1a2"; logging-data="3320097"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19gKpN44FtHxAGSDgPVjUQ1tg1tDfjRgcs=" Cancel-Lock: sha1:SreId4FCo99MYeiztWz2hlOeLG4= X-Newsreader: Claws Mail 4.3.0 (GTK 3.24.42; x86_64-w64-mingw32) Xref: csiph.com comp.os.linux.misc:80533 alt.folklore.computers:233210 On Mon, 5 Jan 2026 12:33:53 -0700 Peter Flass wrote: > Actually, many systems programming languages have no I/O, the idea > being that non-OS programs call the OS to do the I/O, and the OS > interacts directly with the hardware. "Systems programming" usually implies implementation of an OS, though, and IIRC that was the sense that Kernighan was using. You can't excuse limitations by "oh, the OS handles that" when your program *is* the OS.* * (Obviously, there's a certain point in any HLL where Deep Magic has to handle interfacing between language constructs and bare metal, but the higher up the "threshold of minimum abstraction" is, the less suitable it is for systems programming in the first place. Of course, there's also the problem where seemingly *any* language that's not designed for systems programming will ultimately get pressed into service for systems programming *somewhere...*)