Path: csiph.com!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!nntp.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: John Ames Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc Subject: Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2025 15:23:07 -0800 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 42 Message-ID: <20251223152307.00006a3e@gmail.com> References: <10i7khm$2e0ab$3@dont-email.me> <10i8lit$2ltf1$1@dont-email.me> <10i8u2b$2p3ha$1@dont-email.me> <69487137@news.ausics.net> <20251222135823.000042ea@gmail.com> <10icgk7$3rvck$1@dont-email.me> <20251222144314.000060d0@gmail.com> <10icj90$3snlp$2@dont-email.me> <20251222153725.000058b6@gmail.com> <10icl7j$3t6jc$2@dont-email.me> <20251223095921.00004fba@gmail.com> <10ieujr$hok8$6@dont-email.me> <20251223134153.00005fb0@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2025 23:23:13 +0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="deec583291a8e2f0db77a9dd1fdd0418"; logging-data="607222"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19DZLG1hJGM/LUg3S50miQAih5DDy2+zzg=" Cancel-Lock: sha1:kRrwgNVEi28uM8wKGCnhddLrewc= X-Newsreader: Claws Mail 4.3.0 (GTK 3.24.42; x86_64-w64-mingw32) Xref: csiph.com comp.os.linux.misc:79755 On Tue, 23 Dec 2025 22:48:55 GMT Charlie Gibbs wrote: > > Obviously, having trouble with a misbehaving website is a smaller > > thing than burning to death in a badly-renovated apartment > > building.* But even in the little things - every pointless extra > > step, unneccessary delay due to lazy, inefficient implementation, > > thing that has to be re- done thanks to a buggy form, or irritating > > search for a feature buried under baroque UI or incompatible CSS is > > seconds - minutes? hours? - off of *someone's* life, maybe multiple > > someones', maybe *many people's.* > > You make this sound like a bad thing. But it's merely the latest > manifestation of something that's been around much longer than the > Internet. Consider the arrangement of products in a supermarket. > Sometimes there seems to be no rhyme or reason to it. I remember > when the local Safeway had spaghetti noodles in one aisle, and > spaghetti sauce in another. This kind of thing is often deliberate - > it keeps you wandering the aisles longer, making you more likely to > make impulse purchases, which translates to more sales, i.e. profits. > > Cory Doctorow recently did a series of podcasts on "the > enshittification of the Internet". One example he mentioned was that > Google has started making their searches less useful and more > cumbersome, requiring you to make more mouse clicks to find what > you're looking for. Since their revenue is based on mouse clicks, > it's in their best interests to keep you pointing and clicking for as > long as possible before yielding up the answer to your inquiry. I mean, it's *both* - a continuation of a long-established pattern in our society *and* a bad thing. The fact that someone out there excuses it as rational self-interest* (and may even be factually correct) does not make it cool; abusive design patterns are bad, and those who employ them knowingly are *bad people.* They should feel ashamed of themselves and their mothers should all call to tell them that they're very dis- appointed and had hoped they raised them better than this. * (And as Doctorow has brought up in his writing on "enshittification," it's often self-defeating in the long run - you win temporary gains, but your thing is much worse and once someone comes along with a less awful alternative, people will abandon you - and rightfully so.)