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Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer

Newsgroups	comp.os.cpm
Date	2023-07-25 07:11 -0700
References	<0b23887c-d521-4424-8e62-8758cb92c763n@googlegroups.com> <d1697505-80d2-4046-a1fc-300842e68c8cn@googlegroups.com> <227e7d81-50fa-42e2-bf7a-ea8907ebe73an@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID	<fae8ea11-6f2e-4672-bb81-3703697e9a4fn@googlegroups.com> (permalink)
Subject	Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer
From	Douglas Miller <durgadas311@gmail.com>

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I mostly lean towards Phil's definition of "retro", but that's just opinion. I will say that CP/M 3, MP/M, and CP/NET were all viable products back in the day, and so building systems designed for them is still retro. More (banked) RAM, and "smart" network controllers were in existence. The problem with floppies in the modern world might make me allow an exception for disk, using CF or SDCard - at the loss of the valuable experience of swapping floppies and trying to fit things in tiny spaces.

Things like PS/2 keyboards and VGA are not, in my opinion, "retro" but they also place a heavier burden on the software on a Z80. As systems evolved into 16-bit, 32-bit, and now 64-bit, with faster and faster clocks and more directly-addressable RAM, the hardware also evolved to take advantage of the extra resources. These peripherals really weren't intended for a 4MHz 8-bit CPU and a 64K address space. Having never tried to integrate these into CP/M, it's just my impression. But it seems you either need to bank-out the ROM routines (like RomWBW - which might not fall into this definition of retro) or else bank-out the BIOS (like CP/M 3 or some systems that had a ROM BIOS), else you end up losing more of the precious 64K address space to software overhead. It obviously can be done, but there are costs.

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The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer ladislau szilagyi <ladislau_szilagyi@euroqst.ro> - 2023-07-25 02:30 -0700
  Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer ladislau szilagyi <ladislau_szilagyi@euroqst.ro> - 2023-07-25 04:39 -0700
    Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer Phil G <philg@talk21.com> - 2023-07-25 06:18 -0700
    Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer Phil G <philg@talk21.com> - 2023-07-25 06:48 -0700
      Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer ladislau szilagyi <ladislau_szilagyi@euroqst.ro> - 2023-07-25 07:10 -0700
        Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer Douglas Miller <durgadas311@gmail.com> - 2023-07-25 07:20 -0700
          Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer Roger Hanscom <norwestrzh@gmail.com> - 2023-07-25 11:05 -0700
            Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer Bozo User <anthk@disroot.org> - 2023-07-30 18:53 +0000
              Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer ladislau szilagyi <ladislau_szilagyi@euroqst.ro> - 2023-07-31 00:11 -0700
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer ladislau szilagyi <ladislau_szilagyi@euroqst.ro> - 2023-08-11 05:26 -0700
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer ladislau szilagyi <ladislau_szilagyi@euroqst.ro> - 2023-08-12 00:16 -0700
      Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer Douglas Miller <durgadas311@gmail.com> - 2023-07-25 07:11 -0700
  Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer Adam Sampson <ats@offog.org> - 2023-07-25 19:34 +0100
    Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer Udo Munk <udo.munk@freenet.de> - 2023-07-25 12:39 -0700
      Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer ladislau szilagyi <ladislau_szilagyi@euroqst.ro> - 2023-07-25 23:05 -0700
  Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2023-07-28 05:01 +0000
  Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer Zbig <zbigniew2011@gmail.com> - 2023-08-19 10:47 -0700
    Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer ladislau szilagyi <ladislau_szilagyi@euroqst.ro> - 2023-08-19 22:02 -0700
      Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer Zbig <zbigniew2011@gmail.com> - 2023-08-20 01:19 -0700
        Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer ladislau szilagyi <ladislau_szilagyi@euroqst.ro> - 2023-08-20 11:36 -0700
          Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer Zbig <zbigniew2011@gmail.com> - 2023-08-20 12:40 -0700
          Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer Zbig <zbigniew2011@gmail.com> - 2023-08-20 13:03 -0700
            Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer ladislau szilagyi <ladislau_szilagyi@euroqst.ro> - 2023-08-21 00:08 -0700
              Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer Zbig <zbigniew2011@gmail.com> - 2023-08-21 01:03 -0700
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer ladislau szilagyi <ladislau_szilagyi@euroqst.ro> - 2023-08-21 03:01 -0700
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer Zbig <zbigniew2011@gmail.com> - 2023-08-21 03:11 -0700
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer dxforth <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2023-08-21 20:31 +1000
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer ladislau szilagyi <ladislau_szilagyi@euroqst.ro> - 2023-08-21 05:09 -0700
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer Tadeusz Pycio <tapy@wp.pl> - 2023-08-22 02:34 -0700
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer dxforth <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2023-08-22 21:17 +1000
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer Tadeusz Pycio <tapy@wp.pl> - 2023-08-22 04:44 -0700
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer Zbig <zbigniew2011@gmail.com> - 2023-08-22 05:23 -0700
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer Tadeusz Pycio <tapy@wp.pl> - 2023-08-22 05:56 -0700
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer Zbig <zbigniew2011@gmail.com> - 2023-08-22 06:07 -0700
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer "rwd...@gmail.com" <rwdeane@gmail.com> - 2023-08-22 10:00 -0700
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer dxforth <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2023-08-23 03:36 +1000
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer Tadeusz Pycio <tapy@wp.pl> - 2023-08-22 11:41 -0700
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer dxforth <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2023-08-23 16:10 +1000
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer Chris Syntichakis <csynt8bit@gmail.com> - 2023-08-24 23:37 -0700
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer dxforth <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2023-08-25 20:39 +1000
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer Chris Syntichakis <csynt8bit@gmail.com> - 2023-08-26 00:29 -0700
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer Zbig <zbigniew2011@gmail.com> - 2023-08-27 08:48 -0700
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer dxforth <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2023-08-28 21:35 +1000
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer Zbig <zbigniew2011@gmail.com> - 2023-08-24 11:51 -0700
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer "fridtjof.ma...@gmail.com" <fridtjof.martin.weigel@gmail.com> - 2023-08-26 09:40 -0700
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer Roger Hanscom <norwestrzh@gmail.com> - 2023-08-26 14:39 -0700
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer Zbig <zbigniew2011@gmail.com> - 2023-08-26 16:03 -0700
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer dxforth <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2023-08-27 12:20 +1000
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer Greg Holdren <greg.holdren@gmail.com> - 2023-08-26 18:52 -0700
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer jeffj@panix.com (Jeff Jonas) - 2023-09-07 03:47 +0000
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer jeffj@panix.com (Jeff Jonas) - 2023-09-07 03:50 +0000
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer dxforth <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2023-09-07 19:20 +1000
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org> - 2023-09-07 16:03 +0000
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2023-09-07 18:03 +0000
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org> - 2023-09-08 21:29 +0000
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer Roger Hanscom <norwestrzh@gmail.com> - 2023-09-08 08:51 -0700
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org> - 2023-09-08 21:31 +0000
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer Bill McMullen <mcmullenbill0@gmail.com> - 2023-09-08 16:47 -0700
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer "mrgcm...@gmail.com" <mrgcms2001@gmail.com> - 2023-09-19 08:35 -0700
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org> - 2023-09-20 03:04 +0000
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer "pbi...@gmail.com" <pbirkel@gmail.com> - 2023-09-19 23:22 -0700
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer "mrgcm...@gmail.com" <mrgcms2001@gmail.com> - 2023-09-20 12:51 -0700
                Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer dxforth <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2023-09-09 10:34 +1000
  Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer andrei-n <andrei.nesterov@gmail.com> - 2023-08-29 09:08 -0700
    Re: The ideal standalone Z80-based retro computer yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2023-08-29 16:29 +0000

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