Path: csiph.com!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!mx02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Uncle Steve Newsgroups: comp.misc,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Are we just running in place? Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2015 12:59:38 -0500 Organization: Friends of the Galactic Collective Lines: 72 Message-ID: <78b4ab2383a93a3-a7fd2@gmail.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: mx02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="c28fc32c860e997e5e1007f85e7e5678"; logging-data="32105"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+UjiG6w9nWZHphfmAaPmHA" User-Agent: nn 6.7.3 Content-Length: 3159 Cancel-Lock: sha1:X/TAEo/sCje8wHqs+Ca6jIsl8uE= Xref: csiph.com comp.misc:9304 alt.folklore.computers:153749 On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 06:33:18PM +0000, Scott Lurndal wrote: > "gareth" writes: > >"Dan Espen" wrote in message > >news:n0vun0$9kt$2@dont-email.me... > >> "gareth" writes: > >>> "RS Wood" wrote in message > >>> news:d9h7ivF1apvU1@mid.individual.net... > >>>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/10/15/junk_your_it_now_before_it_drags_you_under/ > >>> Very well said. > >>> Give me a machine with GHz speed, and astronmical sized hard disk, a > >>> retina > >>> display, > >>> but otherwise completely lacking in system software, so that I can > >>> control > >>> from the > >>> ground up, just as I did with my first experience of a PDP-11/20 back in > >>> 1971. > >>> I always revelled in close contact with the machine, and as time has > >>> progressed, I feel more > >>> and more divorced from the computers that I love. > >> > >> Simple cure. Run Linux. > >> Don't use any of the highfalutin desktops, just a basic WM. > > > >Even then, you need several mega bytes of bloat and you do not know what is > >happening > >underneath. > > Beg to differ. > > However, systemd is the first step towards megabloat. I used to be able to maintain and upgrade my Linux system from the individually distributed sources. Around 2002 or so that became impractical; I recall attempting to integrate Gnome into my build process and becoming bogged down in endless third-party dependencies. It is much worse today. I do not even know what is all installed on my various systems. On one, /usr/bin holds 2500 entries and weighs in at 400MB. With the exception of the compiler and related tools they are stripped of debug sections. The installed system is 9G including log files and such. It is impractical to expect that I could reasonably inspect the system to positively ascertain that there is no malware included with it. To make matters worse, I run 7 virtual machines (in 8G) which are made up of a heterogenous collection of Linux distributions. Four are running with less than 512M RAM. Even the "small" linux distributions are quite large, although it may at least be said that they are practical for older computers. When I could at least compile everything from sources it was still impractical to verify all of the code for security purposes. And of course if the TLA community can do a MITM attack on you, they can substitute their own version of Ubuntu when you go to download the latest and greatest. SSL only helps you if the root CA is uncompromised, and if your client-side certificate DB is also unmolested. So not only do we have to contend with massive software bloat, but it is essentially impossile to review and verify it all. -- The practitioners of Freemasonry are the rabid Islamic extremists of Christiandom. Heroin makes them invincible and all-knowing, and therefore superior to mere mortals. Their primary distinguishing characteristic is the habit of Orwellian doublethink which permits them to be uncivilized while faking participation in civil society. Pound for pound they are umatched for sheer density of stupid.