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Re: bedrock platform

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Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> quoted someone who wrote:
> Bedrock Platform
> ================
> 
> A bedrock platform is a hardware platform or a universal
> virtual machine that can be expected to remain compatible with any
> software that has ever been written for it. Bedrock platforms can
> be used to prevent software rot.

[snip]

> A simple bedrock platform guide based on the IBM PC line:
> 
> * Can you compile and run the program in FreeDOS?
> 
> If yes, you have the bedrock support (just make sure that the
> compiler and other needed tools are archived somewhere).
> 
> If not, can you create an x86 operating system image that compiles
> and runs the program without accessing any external resources?

[snip]

> * There are no copyright issues in regards to the hardware design,
>   firmware IP, etc.

[snip]

> Candidates for bedrock hardware
> ===============================
> 
> IBM PC
> ------
> 
> Widely cloned, remains ubiquitous, every type of common component has
> had multiple manufacturers in different parts of the world (with the
> exception of OPL2/OPL3 common in classical soundcards). Can be
> emulated by open-source software such as QEMU, Dosbox, or Bochs.
> There are also several different DOS-compatible operating systems,
> including FreeDOS. Standard configurations may be difficult to
> pinpoint.

FreeDOS itself relies on the PC BIOS for hardware interactions,
instead of having its own chipset-specific drivers. Even if DOS is
running in an emulator on top of an OS such as Linux which can use
its own specific hardware drivers (if those exist for the specific
chipset used, which often requires that the chip manufacturer wrote
the Linux driver themselves), you still need the BIOS to initialise
the hardware first and boot that OS. The BIOS is therefore an
"external resource" required by FreeDOS, and unless an open-source
replacement such as Coreboot has been installed, it's got the same
"copyright issues" the author is proposing to avoid.

If you do limit this to PCs supported by Coreboot, the platform
becomes far less ubiquitous, since it's a tiny minority of all the
PC hardware that's been made. They're possibly still more
ubiquitous than any general-purpose computer hardware that is
completely open-source and without any "copyright issues" though,
since the latter hardly exists at all.

[snip]
> * * *
> 
> Raspberry Pi is an example of a platform that fails the criteria. It
> depends on a single-manufacturer SoC chip (Broadcom BCM2835) that
> doesn't have full documentation available. QEMU emulates some versions
> of the platform to some extent but this emulation does not cover the
> undocumented parts of the chip (e.g. running the GPU firmware code).

Those issues are correct, but they also apply to most PC hardware.
There is an open firmware project for the Raspberry Pi, like
Coreboot for PC, but it's unable to initialise most of the hardware
devices like USB and Ethernet, so not really practical to use (and
not really advancing much towards that goal anymore):

https://github.com/christinaa/rpi-open-firmware/

PCs running Coreboot will still need separate proprietary firmware
for using peripherals like WiFi and graphics, so maybe old model
RPis supported by the open firmware are not much different even to
that sub-set of PC hardware, especially running DOS. The main issue
is you need to access it via serial terminal, since unlike PC BIOS
the RPi firmware doesn't provide a software interface text-mode
display or keyboard inputs to the OS.

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bedrock platform Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> - 2026-05-08 13:38 +0000
  Re: bedrock platform Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-08 21:03 +0000
    Re: bedrock platform kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-05-09 09:36 -0400
      Re: bedrock platform Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-09 23:30 +0000
  Re: bedrock platform not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-09 09:42 +1000
    Re: bedrock platform Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> - 2026-05-09 13:29 +0000
      Re: bedrock platform not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-10 08:44 +1000
        Re: bedrock platform Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-05-10 12:58 +0100
          Re: bedrock platform not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-11 09:15 +1000
          Re: bedrock platform Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-11 00:22 +0000

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