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Captcha identify

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  Captcha identify Wesley <nispray@gmail.com> - 2014-08-12 00:04 -0700
    Re: Captcha identify Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-08-12 08:59 -0400
      Re: Captcha identify Wesley <nispray@gmail.com> - 2014-08-12 07:57 -0700
        Re: Captcha identify Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-13 01:06 +1000
          Re: Captcha identify Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2014-08-12 15:38 +0000
            Re: Captcha identify Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-13 01:54 +1000
              Re: Captcha identify Wesley <nispray@gmail.com> - 2014-08-12 18:36 -0700
                Re: Captcha identify Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-13 11:46 +1000
                Re: Captcha identify Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-08-13 11:54 +1000
                Re: Captcha identify Rob Gaddi <rgaddi@technologyhighland.invalid> - 2014-08-13 09:28 -0700
                  Re: Captcha identify Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-14 03:52 +1000
                    Re: Captcha identify Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-14 04:21 +1000
                Re: Captcha identify "Eric S. Johansson" <esj@harvee.org> - 2014-08-13 07:39 -0400
                  Re: Captcha identify alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-08-14 11:42 +0000
                  Re: Captcha identify Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2014-08-14 23:19 +0000
                    Re: Captcha identify "Eric S. Johansson" <esj@harvee.org> - 2014-08-15 13:18 -0400
                    Re: Captcha identify Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-16 03:30 +1000
                Re: Captcha identify Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-14 05:27 +1000
                Re: Captcha identify Chris Kaynor <ckaynor@zindagigames.com> - 2014-08-13 12:24 -0700
                Re: Captcha identify Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-14 05:43 +1000
                Re: Captcha identify Joel Goldstick <joel.goldstick@gmail.com> - 2014-08-13 15:44 -0400
                Re: Captcha identify Skip Montanaro <skip@pobox.com> - 2014-08-13 14:55 -0500
                Re: Captcha identify Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2014-08-13 15:01 -0500
                Re: Captcha identify Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-08-13 14:16 -0600
                  Re: Captcha identify Peter Pearson <ppearson@nowhere.invalid> - 2014-08-14 18:37 +0000
                    Re: Captcha identify Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-08-14 13:42 -0600
                    Re: Captcha identify "Eric S. Johansson" <esj@harvee.org> - 2014-08-14 15:43 -0400
                      Re: Captcha identify alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2014-08-15 17:03 +1000
                        Re: Captcha identify Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-08-15 09:14 +0100
                    Re: Captcha identify Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-15 08:22 +1000
                Re: Captcha identify "Eric S. Johansson" <esj@harvee.org> - 2014-08-13 16:42 -0400
                Re: Captcha identify Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-08-13 14:18 -0600
                Re: Captcha identify Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-14 09:13 +1000
                Re: Captcha identify Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2014-08-14 23:15 +0000
                  Re: Captcha identify Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-08-15 13:23 +1000
                Re: Captcha identify Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2014-08-15 09:20 -0600
    Re: Captcha identify Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2014-08-12 13:51 +0000

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#76102 — Captcha identify

Hi guys,
  These days I got a small task to identify Captcha characters.
I googled a lot and find some way to do verification code identify.
However, most are for general captcha.

And, for simple captcha, I can use Pytesser.

However, what about those advanced pictures.
I mean:
1.including number and alpha
2.letters might be rotated
3.letters might be deformed

I don't know why I cannot insert picture attachment here...

But I think you guys can think out what the captcha looks like:-)

So, any suggestions?

Thanks.
Wesley

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#76110

On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 00:04:33 -0700 (PDT), Wesley <nispray@gmail.com>
declaimed the following:

>Hi guys,
>  These days I got a small task to identify Captcha characters.

	In other words, you have a task to make a robot that can break the
procedures put in place to prevent robots from posting to web sites...

	The whole purpose of the CAPTCHA scheme is that computer AI systems
aren't advanced enough to process them, whereas a human mind can almost do
it in the subconscious.


(as for picture attachments? comp.lang.python is a text newsgroup --
binaries aren't wanted in it; c.l.p is also gatewayed to a mailing list;
and that mailing list is gatewayed to gmane.comp.python.general where it is
made available as a news group (after spam filtering). Google Groups links
to c.l.p (and many of us wish it didn't)
-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
    wlfraed@ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

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#76117

Here is captcha link:
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B33_p7UnVqoyd09mT3V0aWFxRmc&usp=sharing

在 2014年8月12日星期二UTC+8下午8时59分11秒，Dennis Lee Bieber写道：
> On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 00:04:33 -0700 (PDT), Wesley <nispray@gmail.com>
> 
> declaimed the following:
> 
> 
> 
> >Hi guys,
> 
> >  These days I got a small task to identify Captcha characters.
> 
> 
> 
> 	In other words, you have a task to make a robot that can break the
> 
> procedures put in place to prevent robots from posting to web sites...
> 
> 
> 
> 	The whole purpose of the CAPTCHA scheme is that computer AI systems
> 
> aren't advanced enough to process them, whereas a human mind can almost do
> 
> it in the subconscious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (as for picture attachments? comp.lang.python is a text newsgroup --
> 
> binaries aren't wanted in it; c.l.p is also gatewayed to a mailing list;
> 
> and that mailing list is gatewayed to gmane.comp.python.general where it is
> 
> made available as a news group (after spam filtering). Google Groups links
> 
> to c.l.p (and many of us wish it didn't)
> 
> -- 
> 
> 	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
> 
>     wlfraed@ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

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#76118

On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 12:57 AM, Wesley <nispray@gmail.com> wrote:
> Here is captcha link:
> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B33_p7UnVqoyd09mT3V0aWFxRmc&usp=sharing

You seem to have misunderstood how grossly offensive your request is.
I am now the third person to do you the courtesy of a response, but
there are lots more who are simply deleting your post and moving on,
or possibly marking you as a spammer, because that's about the only
reason for wanting a program to solve CAPTCHAs.

Let me spell it out for you: NO WE WILL NOT do this for you. And if
you do it yourself, we will not be happy. Just don't.

ChrisA

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#76120

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 01:06:47 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:

> Let me spell it out for you: NO WE WILL NOT do this for you. And if you
> do it yourself, we will not be happy. Just don't.

Chris, I suspect he's a codemonkey in a chinese or similar asian spamhaus. 
We should probably be thankful that he's so dumb.

-- 
Denis McMahon, denismfmcmahon@gmail.com

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#76123

On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 1:38 AM, Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 01:06:47 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> Let me spell it out for you: NO WE WILL NOT do this for you. And if you
>> do it yourself, we will not be happy. Just don't.
>
> Chris, I suspect he's a codemonkey in a chinese or similar asian spamhaus.
> We should probably be thankful that he's so dumb.

Yeah, that is the most likely scenario. If I'm courteous, I'll assume
that he has no idea what the rest of the world thinks of this kind of
thing.

ChrisA

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#76160

If my questions make you guys not so happy, I am sorry and please just ignore.
I just wanna a general suggestion here in the beginning.
Why I need to write such program is just having such requirements, and has nothing to do with the coding work itself. Don't say something to prove you're so noble.

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#76162

On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 11:36 AM, Wesley <nispray@gmail.com> wrote:
> If my questions make you guys not so happy, I am sorry and please just ignore.
> I just wanna a general suggestion here in the beginning.
> Why I need to write such program is just having such requirements, and has nothing to do with the coding work itself. Don't say something to prove you're so noble.

The general suggestion you're getting is: Do not do this. Many of us
here use CAPTCHAs and spend time keeping one step ahead of those who
try to break them with software. By writing something to solve
CAPTCHAs, you would be stealing time from those people. Don't do it.

Am I sufficiently clear?

ChrisA

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#76163

Wesley <nispray@gmail.com> writes:

> If my questions make you guys not so happy, I am sorry and please just
> ignore.

You seek to dismiss the valid concerns by calling them “not so happy”.

You assert it is questions we object to, when we are clearly objecting
to your intentions.

Don't be disingenuous. The responses you get are because there are valid
concerns about the motives you are pursuing.

> Why I need to write such program is just having such requirements

This is a circular statement, almost a tautology. If that is the best
you can present in defense of harmful and deceitful actions, then there
is no good reason for what you're doing.

Stop, please.

-- 
 \        “The World is not dangerous because of those who do harm but |
  `\          because of those who look at it without doing anything.” |
_o__)                                                 —Albert Einstein |
Ben Finney

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#76215

On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 18:36:21 -0700 (PDT)
Wesley <nispray@gmail.com> wrote:

> If my questions make you guys not so happy, I am sorry and please just ignore.
> I just wanna a general suggestion here in the beginning.
> Why I need to write such program is just having such requirements, and has nothing to do with the coding work itself. Don't say something to prove you're so noble.
> 

Hai guyz I am new to biochemistry and so I need lots of help with
things.can you tell me how to make anthrax?

I need it for stuff, so dont worry

-- 
Rob Gaddi, Highland Technology -- www.highlandtechnology.com
Email address domain is currently out of order.  See above to fix.

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#76220

Rob Gaddi wrote:

> On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 18:36:21 -0700 (PDT)
> Wesley <nispray@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> If my questions make you guys not so happy, I am sorry and please just
>> ignore. I just wanna a general suggestion here in the beginning.
>> Why I need to write such program is just having such requirements, and
>> has nothing to do with the coding work itself. Don't say something to
>> prove you're so noble.
>> 
> 
> Hai guyz I am new to biochemistry and so I need lots of help with
> things.can you tell me how to make anthrax?
> 
> I need it for stuff, so dont worry

:-)

You'll only use it for good, right?



-- 
Steven

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#76223

On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 3:52 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:
>> I need it for stuff, so dont worry
>
> :-)
>
> You'll only use it for good, right?

He needs it for stuffing. Remind me to decline any invitation to
turkey dinner that he sends.

ChrisA

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#76227

On 8/12/2014 9:46 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 11:36 AM, Wesley <nispray@gmail.com> wrote:
>> If my questions make you guys not so happy, I am sorry and please just ignore.
>> I just wanna a general suggestion here in the beginning.
>> Why I need to write such program is just having such requirements, and has nothing to do with the coding work itself. Don't say something to prove you're so noble.
> The general suggestion you're getting is: Do not do this. Many of us
> here use CAPTCHAs and spend time keeping one step ahead of those who
> try to break them with software. By writing something to solve
> CAPTCHAs, you would be stealing time from those people. Don't do it.
>
> Am I sufficiently clear?
>
you are clear but also missing a really good reason to break captchas.  
handicapped accessibility.  Captchas are a huge barrier to access and in 
many cases push disabled users away from using a service  with 
captchas.  For me (very acute vision, crap hands) it take me 2-5 tries 
before I get an image I think I can read reliably, then it take 2-3 
tries to type the letters in (slowly and with hand pain) correctly. My 
mom (80yr and going strong) sees a captcha and gives up on using the 
site unless I tell her what to type.

one major tests for accessibility is "can I automate common user tasks 
including tasks with context based decisions".  Captchas fail that test 
as do many authentication system user interactions and, if one is 
entirely truthful, entire applications.  Automating captcha solving 
would be a boon for the disabled or aging user.

try taking this moment as a challenge.  build an authentication 
system+ui that works for the disabled/aged and you will have an 
authentication system that will work better for everybody.  for example, 
use an equivalent of ssh-agent to supply credentials to sites needing 
them.  I can automate ssh-agent and we can make the process+UI easy 
enough for my mom to use it or automate it for her too.

eliminate captchas, 35+million disabled people would thank you as would 
many more millions of the not-yet-disabled like your future self.

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#76294

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 07:39:20 -0400, Eric S. Johansson wrote:

> On 8/12/2014 9:46 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 11:36 AM, Wesley <nispray@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> If my questions make you guys not so happy, I am sorry and please just
>>> ignore.
>>> I just wanna a general suggestion here in the beginning.
>>> Why I need to write such program is just having such requirements, and
>>> has nothing to do with the coding work itself. Don't say something to
>>> prove you're so noble.
>> The general suggestion you're getting is: Do not do this. Many of us
>> here use CAPTCHAs and spend time keeping one step ahead of those who
>> try to break them with software. By writing something to solve
>> CAPTCHAs, you would be stealing time from those people. Don't do it.
>>
>> Am I sufficiently clear?
>>
> you are clear but also missing a really good reason to break captchas.
> handicapped accessibility.  Captchas are a huge barrier to access and in
> many cases push disabled users away from using a service  with captchas.
<Snip>lots of very valid complaints about Captcha usability </snip>

Decent (I use the term loosely because i am no fan either) Captcha 
systems also provide options for Audio to assist the Visually impaired. I 
am not sure how well it works but can only assume it is an improvement.

One system I have seen removes the need fro captcha completly

Instead it relies on Javascript & AJAX

a short time after loading the page it it requests a unique serial number 
from the server using which is added to the form as a hidden field.
if this field & SN is missing from the response then the request is 
rejected as coming from a Bot. 
since most bots do not (as far as I know) include a Javascript 
interpreter this process removes any additional burden from the end user.

unfortunately at present in the battle between service providers & scumm*  
the disabled population is an unfortunate victim.

I can't think of another slightly polite word for people who spam or hack 
websites.


-- 
Zeus gave Leda the bird.

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#76334

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 07:39:20 -0400, Eric S. Johansson wrote:

> you are clear but also missing a really good reason to break captchas.
> handicapped accessibility.  Captchas are a huge barrier to access and in
> many cases push disabled users away from using a service  with captchas.

That's as may be, but bozo is not trying to improve handicapped 
accessibility, he's trying to write a spambot.

Please don't use the accessibility concerns surrounding captcha to 
justify writing spambot software. It doesn't help the accessibility 
argument to be seen to be pro spambot, in fact if anything it may damage 
it. I agree that there are more reasons not to use captcha these days 
than there are to use them, however I still don't advocate helping spambot 
bastards defeat them.

-- 
Denis McMahon, denismfmcmahon@gmail.com

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#76376

On 8/14/2014 7:19 PM, Denis McMahon wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 07:39:20 -0400, Eric S. Johansson wrote:
>
>> you are clear but also missing a really good reason to break captchas.
>> handicapped accessibility.  Captchas are a huge barrier to access and in
>> many cases push disabled users away from using a service  with captchas.
> That's as may be, but bozo is not trying to improve handicapped
> accessibility, he's trying to write a spambot.

not necessary.  you are probably right but he never described the 
application.
>
> Please don't use the accessibility concerns surrounding captcha to
> justify writing spambot software. It doesn't help the accessibility
> argument to be seen to be pro spambot, in fact if anything it may damage
> it. I agree that there are more reasons not to use captcha these days
> than there are to use them, however I still don't advocate helping spambot
> bastards defeat them.
>
not what I said or advocated.  pointing out that breaking captchas is 
good for accessibility issues it not the same as being pro spambot. it 
may have that effect but it is not the same thing. fwiw, making software 
accessible means making it possible to make your own interface via an 
application api.  the current scrape-a-gui model fails the 
-what-the-user-needs test.  at the same time, notice the huge security 
risk an D(ability)A(ccessibility) api opens up. does not mean we 
shouldn't use the DA api model, just that we also need to fix the 
security problem at the same time.

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#76378

On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 3:18 AM, Eric S. Johansson <esj@harvee.org> wrote:
> not what I said or advocated.  pointing out that breaking captchas is good
> for accessibility issues it not the same as being pro spambot. it may have
> that effect but it is not the same thing.

I don't care, frankly. I'm still not going to help anyone to break
CAPTCHAs automatically. If you're unable to solve CAPTCHAs, it's
equivalent to being unable to run VBScript or unable to download music
over a proprietary streaming protocol: it's a problem to be solved by
getting the server admin to change policy, *not* by trying to script
around it. Scripting around the problem just forces everyone to make
it harder to script around the problem. You're joining the arms race,
and on the wrong side.

Breaking CAPTCHAs is *not* good for any issue.

ChrisA

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#76228

On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 9:39 PM, Eric S. Johansson <esj@harvee.org> wrote:
> you are clear but also missing a really good reason to break captchas.
> handicapped accessibility.  Captchas are a huge barrier to access and in
> many cases push disabled users away from using a service  with captchas.
> For me (very acute vision, crap hands) it take me 2-5 tries before I get an
> image I think I can read reliably, then it take 2-3 tries to type the
> letters in (slowly and with hand pain) correctly. My mom (80yr and going
> strong) sees a captcha and gives up on using the site unless I tell her what
> to type.
>
> one major tests for accessibility is "can I automate common user tasks
> including tasks with context based decisions".  Captchas fail that test as
> do many authentication system user interactions and, if one is entirely
> truthful, entire applications.  Automating captcha solving would be a boon
> for the disabled or aging user.
>
> try taking this moment as a challenge.  build an authentication system+ui
> that works for the disabled/aged and you will have an authentication system
> that will work better for everybody.  for example, use an equivalent of
> ssh-agent to supply credentials to sites needing them.  I can automate
> ssh-agent and we can make the process+UI easy enough for my mom to use it or
> automate it for her too.
>
> eliminate captchas, 35+million disabled people would thank you as would many
> more millions of the not-yet-disabled like your future self.

I agree with you, and I don't use CAPTCHAs on any of my services,
anywhere, and never have. (Partly because they *are* broken by people
writing scripts, and/or by just grinding them with human solvers; but
also because of the problems they cause for legit users, even those
with perfect eyesight.) However, the accessibility argument is one for
the removal of the captcha, *not* for its automated solving. I will
not support a scripted captcha solver for any reason. If you move away
from a site because you can't use it, so be it. If you get a chance,
tell the owner that there are alternatives to barely-readable images;
tricks involving page layouts are almost always safe, and there's
infinite room to play around in them.

There is no valid reason for automating something that's specifically
to prevent automation. The admin needs to provide an alternative,
instead.

ChrisA

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#76229

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 4:39 AM, Eric S. Johansson <esj@harvee.org> wrote:

> eliminate captchas, 35+million disabled people would thank you as would
> many more millions of the not-yet-disabled like your future self.


And so would the spammers, which is who captchas are trying to block.

For ease-of-use, most sites only require captchas to be entered once upon
creating the account. Some might also require additional captcha entries
when the account is suspected of spamming. This is ultimately a trade-off
of blocking spammers and allowing accessibility.

Many of the better captchas also include options for an audio cue in
addition to the default visual one.

Chris

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#76231

On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 5:24 AM, Chris Kaynor <ckaynor@zindagigames.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 4:39 AM, Eric S. Johansson <esj@harvee.org> wrote:
>>
>> eliminate captchas, 35+million disabled people would thank you as would
>> many more millions of the not-yet-disabled like your future self.
>
>
> And so would the spammers, which is who captchas are trying to block.

There are alternatives that are both easier for legit people and
harder for spambots. Some rely on the fact that humans read things two
dimensionally, and scripts look at the underlying structure; so, for
instance, random field names and cunning CSS to match them up with
their labels can result in a form that's completely messed up in the
source, but looks perfect to a user. Or you can put extra fields down
that you can't see if the form's laid out properly. Or you can combine
those sorts of tricks with a very simple challenge-response, like
"What is one plus one?" that requires some specific value to be in a
specific field - and if that value occurs in the wrong field, you
throw the form back to the user.

For some reason, everyone's jumped on the "show some mangled
text/numbers and ask the user to enter them" bandwagon, in the same
way that everyone has gone for passwords that require
lower/upper/digit/symbol and (in the most annoying cases) are actually
length-limited to something stupid like 12 characters. Yes, maximum,
not minimum. Grumble.

ChrisA

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