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Groups > comp.lang.python > #72180 > unrolled thread

Python 3 is killing Python

Started byLarry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com>
First post2014-05-28 14:23 -0500
Last post2014-05-31 09:28 -0800
Articles 20 on this page of 324 — 57 participants

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Contents

  Python 3 is killing Python Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 14:23 -0500
    Re: Python 3 is killing Python Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2014-05-28 21:39 +0200
    Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-28 22:41 +0300
    Re: Python 3 is killing Python Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-28 12:49 -0700
      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 14:58 -0500
        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-29 03:49 +0000
          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-28 21:23 -0700
          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2014-05-29 06:38 -0500
      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-05-29 06:15 +1000
      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-28 21:24 +0100
        Re: Python 3 is killing Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-05-28 23:14 -0700
        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-14 15:12 -0700
          Re: Python 3 is killing Python mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> - 2014-07-14 23:37 +0100
          Re: Python 3 is killing Python MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-07-14 23:47 +0100
            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-14 18:00 -0700
              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 11:18 +1000
          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 09:28 +1000
            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-14 18:54 -0700
              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 12:11 +1000
                Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-14 21:18 -0700
                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 14:40 +1000
                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Martin S <shieldfire@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 06:31 +0200
                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-15 05:41 +0000
                    Re: Python 3 is killing Python Tim Roberts <timr@probo.com> - 2014-07-16 20:18 -0700
                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 22:15 -0700
                        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-07-17 17:36 +1200
                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 15:45 +1000
                        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 15:45 +1000
                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-15 08:05 +0100
                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-07-15 12:30 +0000
          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-15 00:59 +0100
          Re: Python 3 is killing Python alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-07-15 12:19 +0000
            Re: Python 3 is killing Python MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-07-15 15:50 +0100
              Re: Python 3 is killing Python alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-07-15 17:38 +0000
                Re: Python 3 is killing Python Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-07-15 18:23 +0000
            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-15 16:35 +0100
      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-05-29 08:38 +1000
        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-28 16:22 -0700
        Re: Python 3 is killing Python beliavsky@aol.com - 2014-08-06 06:47 -0700
          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-08-06 14:42 -0400
            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-07 12:42 +1000
          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-07 13:37 +1000
            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-08-07 21:07 -0400
      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-05-28 21:57 -0400
    Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2014-05-31 12:07 +0200
      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2014-05-31 13:09 +0200
        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@behnel.de> - 2014-05-31 13:22 +0200
        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2014-06-01 04:57 +0200
          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-06-01 13:35 +1000
            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-05-31 21:11 -0700
            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2014-06-01 13:38 +0200
          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2014-06-01 07:01 +0100
            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-06-01 07:52 +0100
            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2014-06-01 13:41 +0200
              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-06-01 12:53 +0100
              Re: Python 3 is killing Python alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-06-01 17:21 +0000
              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2014-06-02 07:14 +0100
      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-05-31 12:30 +0000
        Re: Python 3 is killing Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-05-31 08:48 -0700
          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-06-02 09:01 -0600
            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-06-02 16:15 +0000
              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-06-02 12:21 -0400
                Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-06-03 02:30 +1000
                Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-06-02 16:52 +0000
                Re: Python 3 is killing Python Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2014-06-02 19:16 +0200
              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-06-02 11:53 -0600
              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-06-02 18:59 +0100
            Re: Python 3 is killing Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-06-02 23:12 -0700
              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-06-02 23:30 -0700
                Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-06-03 09:03 +0100
                Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2014-06-03 07:22 -0400
              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2014-07-14 21:58 -0600
                Re: Python 3 is killing Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-07-15 00:23 -0700
              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-15 08:31 +0100
          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2014-07-14 21:47 -0600
          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 14:20 +1000
            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Fabien <fabien.maussion@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 14:17 +0200
              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 23:00 +1000
                Re: Python 3 is killing Python Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> - 2014-07-15 09:57 -0400
                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 00:31 +1000
                    Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-15 20:38 +0300
                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-15 19:06 +0000
                        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-15 23:01 +0300
                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-16 03:51 +0000
                            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 14:20 +1000
                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-16 07:33 +0000
                            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-16 08:52 +0300
                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 16:26 +1000
                                Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-16 09:44 +0300
                                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 16:50 +1000
                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-07-16 00:11 -0700
                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-16 07:49 +0000
                                Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 18:44 +1000
                                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-16 11:35 +0000
                                    Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 21:54 +1000
                                Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-16 13:46 +0300
                                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-16 12:10 +0000
                                    Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 22:55 +1000
                                    Re: Python 3 is killing Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-07-16 06:10 -0700
                                    Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-16 16:11 +0300
                                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-07-16 06:22 -0700
                                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 00:04 +1000
                                        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-16 17:39 +0300
                                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 01:23 +1000
                                            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-16 18:48 +0300
                                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 02:07 +1000
                                                Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-16 19:20 +0300
                                                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-17 02:51 +0000
                                                    Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 13:15 +1000
                                                    Re: Python 3 is killing Python MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-07-17 12:27 +0100
                                    Re: Python 3 is killing Python "Frank Millman" <frank@chagford.com> - 2014-07-17 07:18 +0200
                                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-17 07:49 +0000
                                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-07-30 14:31 -0700
                                Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-16 17:02 -0400
                                Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-16 18:47 -0400
                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python "Frank Millman" <frank@chagford.com> - 2014-07-16 16:27 +0200
                                Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 15:41 -0700
                                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-17 00:00 +0100
                                    Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 18:16 -0700
                                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-17 03:14 +0000
                                        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-17 08:17 +0100
                                        Re: Python 3 is killing Python alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 12:49 +1000
                                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Dan Stromberg <drsalists@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 20:34 -0700
                                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-07-18 14:17 +0000
                                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 13:20 +1000
                                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-17 23:54 +0100
                                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-17 03:16 +0000
                                    Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 21:47 -0700
                                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Fabien <fabien.maussion@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 12:12 +0200
                                        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 21:12 +1000
                                        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 11:15 -0700
                                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 04:27 +1000
                                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-17 21:44 +0300
                                            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 19:24 -0700
                                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 12:39 +1000
                                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 21:40 -0600
                                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-18 08:24 +0300
                                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-18 08:34 +0100
                                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-07-18 14:19 +0000
                                                Re: Python 3 is killing Python Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 08:35 -0600
                                                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Torsten Bronger <bronger@physik.rwth-aachen.de> - 2014-07-18 17:25 +0200
                                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-18 19:45 -0400
                                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-17 20:06 +0100
                                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Emile van Sebille <emile@fenx.com> - 2014-07-17 12:22 -0700
                                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-17 21:37 +0100
                                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-17 17:30 -0400
                                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-17 20:13 -0400
                                            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-18 18:38 +0000
                                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-18 01:26 +0100
                                            Re: Python 3 is killing Python alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 12:54 +1000
                                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Andrew Berg <aberg010@my.hennepintech.edu> - 2014-07-17 19:45 -0500
                                            Re: Python 3 is killing Python alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 13:01 +1000
                                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-18 16:45 +0100
                                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 12:15 +1000
                                            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 20:37 -0700
                                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 15:34 +1000
                                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 02:21 -0600
                                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 18:27 +1000
                                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-07-18 16:46 +0100
                                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-18 16:49 +0100
                                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-18 16:50 +0100
                                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-18 17:22 +0100
                                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-18 21:27 -0400
                                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-18 21:21 -0400
                                                Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-19 09:29 -0700
                                                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 02:41 +1000
                                                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-07-19 12:00 -0600
                                                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-19 13:39 -0700
                                                    Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 09:13 +1000
                                                  Improving Idle (was Re: Python 3 ...) Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-19 16:45 -0400
                                                    Re: Improving Idle (was Re: Python 3 ...) Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-19 18:31 -0700
                                                      Re: Improving Idle (was Re: Python 3 ...) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 11:42 +1000
                                                      Re: Improving Idle (was Re: Python 3 ...) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-20 12:40 +0100
                                                      Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-20 17:52 -0400
                                                        Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 18:22 -0700
                                                          Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-21 11:32 +1000
                                                          Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-20 23:49 -0400
                                                      Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-21 10:55 +1000
                                                      Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-20 23:28 -0400
                                                      Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-21 13:34 +1000
                                                      Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-21 05:00 -0400
                                                        Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-07-21 13:00 -0700
                                                      Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-21 20:56 +1000
                                                      Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-21 14:30 -0400
                                                      Re: Idle's Shell: prompts and indents (was ...) Idle users please read Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-22 04:35 +1000
                                                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-19 15:50 -0700
                                                    Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-19 19:23 -0400
                                                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 09:10 +1000
                                                  Re: Improving Idle (was Re: Python 3 ...) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-21 02:54 +0100
                                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-18 08:24 +0100
                                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-18 18:20 +0000
                                            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-18 19:31 +0100
                                            Re: Python 3 is killing Python MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-07-18 20:44 +0100
                                            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 14:37 -0700
                                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2014-07-18 18:09 -0400
                                              Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-19 07:28 +0000
                                                Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] "C.D. Reimer" <chris@cdreimer.com> - 2014-07-19 11:08 -0700
                                                Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-19 14:31 -0400
                                                  Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-20 01:23 +0000
                                                    Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 11:39 +1000
                                                    Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] "C.D. Reimer" <chris@cdreimer.com> - 2014-07-19 18:53 -0700
                                                      Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] CHIN Dihedral <dihedral88888@gmail.com> - 2014-07-21 08:37 -0700
                                                    Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 14:18 +1000
                                                Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 07:50 +1000
                                                Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 09:19 +1000
                                                Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Tim Delaney <timothy.c.delaney@gmail.com> - 2014-07-20 10:41 +1000
                                                Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] "C.D. Reimer" <chris@cdreimer.com> - 2014-07-19 18:24 -0700
                                                Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] TP <wingusr@gmail.com> - 2014-07-19 19:03 -0700
                                                Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] "C.D. Reimer" <chris@cdreimer.com> - 2014-07-19 20:10 -0700
                                                Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2014-08-01 13:10 +0200
                                                  Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-01 21:22 +1000
                                                    Re: Python and IDEs Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-08-01 15:19 +0300
                                                      Re: Python and IDEs Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-01 22:30 +1000
                                                      Re: Python and IDEs Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-01 23:10 +1000
                                                        Re: Python and IDEs Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-01 23:30 +1000
                                                        Re: Python and IDEs Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-08-01 18:13 +0300
                                                    Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2014-08-06 14:38 +0200
                                                      Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-06 22:51 +1000
                                                        Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2014-08-11 11:08 +0200
                                                  Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Nicholas Cole <nicholas.cole@gmail.com> - 2014-08-01 15:28 +0100
                                                    Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2014-08-06 14:47 +0200
                                                      Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-07 13:32 +1000
                                                        Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2014-08-11 11:08 +0200
                                                          Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] alister <alister.nospam.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2014-08-11 09:37 +0000
                                                            Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-11 20:20 +1000
                                                          Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-08-11 14:45 +0100
                                                          Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-08-11 18:42 +0000
                                                          Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-12 10:11 +1000
                                                            Re: Quoting and attribution (was: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]) Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2014-08-11 19:27 -0500
                                                              Re: Quoting and attribution (was: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]) Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-12 02:07 +0000
                                                                Re: Quoting and attribution (was: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-12 12:13 +1000
                                                                Re: Quoting and attribution (was: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python]) Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2014-08-11 21:23 -0500
                                                            Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2014-08-13 12:42 +0200
                                                              Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-13 23:35 +1000
                                                              Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-08-13 16:51 +0100
                                                  Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-02 00:39 +1000
                                                    Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-08-02 11:14 +1200
                                                      Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-02 09:50 +1000
                                                      Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Olaf Hering <olaf@aepfle.de> - 2014-08-02 09:10 +0200
                                                        Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-08-02 23:38 +1200
                                                  Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Dietmar Schwertberger <maillist@schwertberger.de> - 2014-08-01 19:16 +0200
                                                    Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2014-08-06 14:47 +0200
                                                      Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-08-11 18:39 +0000
                                                        Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Wolfgang Keller <feliphil@gmx.net> - 2014-08-13 13:46 +0200
                                                  Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2014-08-01 14:22 -0600
                                                  Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-08-01 22:09 +0100
                                                    Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-08-02 12:00 +1200
                                                      Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-02 10:20 +1000
                                                        Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-08-02 23:33 +1200
                                                          Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-02 23:01 +1000
                                                            Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-08-03 12:01 +1200
                                                              Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-03 11:12 +1000
                                                      Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-08-02 14:55 +0100
                                                        Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-08-03 12:04 +1200
                                                          Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Dietmar Schwertberger <maillist@schwertberger.de> - 2014-08-03 09:46 +0200
                                                      Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-08-02 10:27 -0400
                                                        Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-08-03 12:20 +1200
                                                  Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-08-02 09:48 +1000
                                                Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2014-08-05 13:29 +0000
                                                  Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-08-06 02:50 +1000
                                                    Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2014-08-05 19:25 +0000
                                                      Re: Python and IDEs [was Re: Python 3 is killing Python] TP <wingusr@gmail.com> - 2014-08-05 14:28 -0700
                                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2014-07-18 19:26 -0400
                                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> - 2014-08-03 21:21 -0400
                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 01:18 +1000
                                Re: Python 3 is killing Python Javier <nospam@nospam.com> - 2014-07-16 17:33 +0000
                                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 11:50 -0600
                                    Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-17 03:33 +0000
                                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-17 04:25 +0000
                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python "Neil D. Cerutti" <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2014-07-16 11:48 -0400
                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-16 18:34 +0100
                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python "Frank Millman" <frank@chagford.com> - 2014-07-17 08:31 +0200
                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 16:41 +1000
                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python "Frank Millman" <frank@chagford.com> - 2014-07-17 09:09 +0200
                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 17:59 +1000
                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Glenn Linderman <v+python@g.nevcal.com> - 2014-08-01 23:18 -0700
                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-15 21:24 +0100
                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 13:47 -0700
                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Abhiram R <abhi.darkness@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 03:07 +0530
                        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-16 02:08 +0000
                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Abhiram R <abhi.darkness@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 03:05 +0530
                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-15 22:49 +0100
                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Abhiram R <abhi.darkness@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 03:43 +0530
                        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> - 2014-07-15 18:30 -0400
                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Abhiram R <abhi.darkness@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 04:10 +0530
                            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 16:53 -0700
                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2014-07-16 02:57 +0100
                                Re: Python 3 is killing Python Tim Roberts <timr@probo.com> - 2014-07-16 20:20 -0700
                                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 13:38 +1000
                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Abhiram R <abhi.darkness@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 09:07 +0530
                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-16 09:18 +0100
                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick <kwpolska@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 12:20 +0200
                              Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-07-17 14:17 +1000
                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Joshua Landau <joshua@landau.ws> - 2014-07-16 00:45 +0100
                          Interleaved posting style for text discussion forums (was: Python 3 is killing Python) Ben Finney <ben@benfinney.id.au> - 2014-07-17 14:02 +1000
                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-15 23:38 +0100
                        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> - 2014-07-15 20:43 -0400
                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-07-15 23:05 -0400
                            Re: Python 3 is killing Python Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-07-16 13:59 +0000
                    Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 11:01 -0700
                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-15 21:08 +0300
                        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-15 18:57 +0000
                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-07-15 22:49 +0300
                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-15 18:53 +0000
                        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 13:20 -0700
                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 14:46 -0600
                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 12:53 -0600
                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Anders Wegge Keller <wegge@wegge.dk> - 2014-07-15 17:02 +0200
                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-07-15 15:43 +0000
                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-07-15 16:44 +0100
                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-16 01:48 +1000
                  Re: Python 3 is killing Python alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 15:48 +1000
                    Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-17 07:03 +0000
                    Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 10:36 -0700
                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 03:52 +1000
                        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2014-07-17 11:38 -0700
                          Re: Python 3 is killing Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-07-18 04:48 +1000
                      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-07-18 18:01 +0000
              Re: Python 3 is killing Python wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-07-15 06:33 -0700
        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2014-06-01 05:00 +0200
      Re: Python 3 is killing Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-05-31 15:44 +0300
        Re: Python 3 is killing Python Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2014-06-01 05:05 +0200
          Re: Python 3 is killing Python pyotr filipivich <phamp@mindspring.com> - 2014-07-12 10:50 -0700
    Re: Python 3 is killing Python Deb Wyatt <codemonkey@inbox.com> - 2014-05-31 09:28 -0800

Page 4 of 17 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 … 17  Next page →


#72422

FromSteven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info>
Date2014-06-02 16:15 +0000
Message-ID<538ca310$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
In reply to#72415
On Mon, 02 Jun 2014 09:01:01 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote:

> On Jun 1, 2014 12:11 PM, <wxjmfauth@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> At least Py2 does not crash when using non ascii (eg sticking with
>> cp1252).
>>
>> I just noticed this last week, Thursday, when presenting the absurdity
>> of the Flexible String Representation.
> 
> So have you reported this alleged crash bug to the bug tracker? If not,
> then you're not contributing to Python or the discussion here in any
> useful way; you're just trolling.


There's a corollary to Poe's Law that says that a sufficiently advanced 
troll is indistinguishable from a crank. Whichever JMF is, please don't 
feed him attention.



-- 
Steven D'Aprano
http://import-that.dreamwidth.org/

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#72423

FromRoy Smith <roy@panix.com>
Date2014-06-02 12:21 -0400
Message-ID<roy-EF9D54.12214502062014@news.panix.com>
In reply to#72422
In article <538ca310$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>,
 Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:

> On Mon, 02 Jun 2014 09:01:01 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote:
> 
> > On Jun 1, 2014 12:11 PM, <wxjmfauth@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> At least Py2 does not crash when using non ascii (eg sticking with
> >> cp1252).
> >>
> >> I just noticed this last week, Thursday, when presenting the absurdity
> >> of the Flexible String Representation.
> > 
> > So have you reported this alleged crash bug to the bug tracker? If not,
> > then you're not contributing to Python or the discussion here in any
> > useful way; you're just trolling.
> 
> 
> There's a corollary to Poe's Law that says that a sufficiently advanced 
> troll is indistinguishable from a crank. Whichever JMF is, please don't 
> feed him attention.

Are we talking Tolkien trolls, Pratchett trolls, Rowling trolls, D&D 
trolls, WoW trolls, or what?  Details matter.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#72425

FromChris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>
Date2014-06-03 02:30 +1000
Message-ID<mailman.10565.1401726639.18130.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#72423
On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 2:21 AM, Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> wrote:
> Are we talking Tolkien trolls, Pratchett trolls, Rowling trolls, D&D
> trolls, WoW trolls, or what?  Details matter.

Don't forget Frozen trolls, they're love experts!

ChrisA
(Why aren't you running?)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#72427

FromSteven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info>
Date2014-06-02 16:52 +0000
Message-ID<538cabb2$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
In reply to#72423
On Mon, 02 Jun 2014 12:21:45 -0400, Roy Smith wrote:

>> There's a corollary to Poe's Law that says that a sufficiently advanced
>> troll is indistinguishable from a crank. Whichever JMF is, please don't
>> feed him attention.
> 
> Are we talking Tolkien trolls, Pratchett trolls, Rowling trolls, D&D
> trolls, WoW trolls, or what?  Details matter.

Now I think you're trolling :-)

Internet troll. As I'm sure you know.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Don%27t_feed_the_Troll




-- 
Steven D'Aprano
http://import-that.dreamwidth.org/

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#72428

FromJohannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de>
Date2014-06-02 19:16 +0200
Message-ID<lmibhd$goo$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#72423
On 02.06.2014 18:21, Roy Smith wrote:

> Are we talking Tolkien trolls, Pratchett trolls, Rowling trolls, D&D 
> trolls, WoW trolls, or what?  Details matter.

Monkey Island trolls, obviously.

Cheers,
Johannes

-- 
>> Wo hattest Du das Beben nochmal GENAU vorhergesagt?
> Zumindest nicht öffentlich!
Ah, der neueste und bis heute genialste Streich unsere großen
Kosmologen: Die Geheim-Vorhersage.
 - Karl Kaos über Rüdiger Thomas in dsa <hidbv3$om2$1@speranza.aioe.org>

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#72434

FromIan Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com>
Date2014-06-02 11:53 -0600
Message-ID<mailman.10568.1401731674.18130.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#72422
On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:
> On Mon, 02 Jun 2014 09:01:01 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote:
>
>> On Jun 1, 2014 12:11 PM, <wxjmfauth@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> At least Py2 does not crash when using non ascii (eg sticking with
>>> cp1252).
>>>
>>> I just noticed this last week, Thursday, when presenting the absurdity
>>> of the Flexible String Representation.
>>
>> So have you reported this alleged crash bug to the bug tracker? If not,
>> then you're not contributing to Python or the discussion here in any
>> useful way; you're just trolling.
>
>
> There's a corollary to Poe's Law that says that a sufficiently advanced
> troll is indistinguishable from a crank. Whichever JMF is, please don't
> feed him attention.

While his description of the bug is so vague that I'm not inclined to
believe that it actually exists, if it's real then he should be
encouraged to report it.  This is the last time, though.  If he
continues to complain about bugs without reporting or otherwise
identifying them, I'll just ignore it.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#72436

FromMark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk>
Date2014-06-02 18:59 +0100
Message-ID<mailman.10570.1401731995.18130.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#72422
On 02/06/2014 18:53, Ian Kelly wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:
>> On Mon, 02 Jun 2014 09:01:01 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote:
>>
>>> On Jun 1, 2014 12:11 PM, <wxjmfauth@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> At least Py2 does not crash when using non ascii (eg sticking with
>>>> cp1252).
>>>>
>>>> I just noticed this last week, Thursday, when presenting the absurdity
>>>> of the Flexible String Representation.
>>>
>>> So have you reported this alleged crash bug to the bug tracker? If not,
>>> then you're not contributing to Python or the discussion here in any
>>> useful way; you're just trolling.
>>
>>
>> There's a corollary to Poe's Law that says that a sufficiently advanced
>> troll is indistinguishable from a crank. Whichever JMF is, please don't
>> feed him attention.
>
> While his description of the bug is so vague that I'm not inclined to
> believe that it actually exists, if it's real then he should be
> encouraged to report it.  This is the last time, though.  If he
> continues to complain about bugs without reporting or otherwise
> identifying them, I'll just ignore it.
>

It's a pleasant change having him complain about bugs, as opposed to 
simply complain about nonexistent problems.


-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask 
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

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#72476

Fromwxjmfauth@gmail.com
Date2014-06-02 23:12 -0700
Message-ID<2d66f199-ceea-4cfe-b35f-436041398817@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#72415
Le lundi 2 juin 2014 17:01:01 UTC+2, Ian a écrit :
> On Jun 1, 2014 12:11 PM, <wxjm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > At least Py2 does not crash when using non ascii
> 
> > (eg sticking with cp1252).
> 
> >
> 
> > I just noticed this last week, Thursday, when presenting
> 
> > the absurdity of the Flexible String Representation.
> 
> So have you reported this alleged crash bug to the bug tracker? If not, then you're not contributing to Python or the discussion here in any useful way; you're just trolling.

------

I was myself really suprised to fall on such a case and
after thinking no, such cases may logically happen.

It's not important. I'm no more writing Py apps, only
considering software through an unicode eye.

jmf

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#72480

FromRustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com>
Date2014-06-02 23:30 -0700
Message-ID<07f38489-c9d0-4085-8c5c-bf5540503d59@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#72476
On Tuesday, June 3, 2014 11:42:30 AM UTC+5:30, jmf wrote:

> after thinking no

Yes [Also called Oui]

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#72488

FromMark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk>
Date2014-06-03 09:03 +0100
Message-ID<mailman.10602.1401782709.18130.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#72480
On 03/06/2014 07:30, Rustom Mody wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 3, 2014 11:42:30 AM UTC+5:30, jmf wrote:
>
>> after thinking no
>
> Yes [Also called Oui]
>

I'm very puzzled over "thinking", what context was this in as I've 
kill-filed our most illustrious resident unicode expert?

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask 
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

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#72507

FromNed Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com>
Date2014-06-03 07:22 -0400
Message-ID<mailman.10616.1401794575.18130.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#72480
On 6/3/14 4:03 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> On 03/06/2014 07:30, Rustom Mody wrote:
>> On Tuesday, June 3, 2014 11:42:30 AM UTC+5:30, jmf wrote:
>>
>>> after thinking no
>>
>> Yes [Also called Oui]
>>
>
> I'm very puzzled over "thinking", what context was this in as I've
> kill-filed our most illustrious resident unicode expert?
>

Let's please not have a recounting of other peoples' posts, especially 
if they are posts we try to minimize.

-- 
Ned Batchelder, http://nedbatchelder.com

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#74461

FromMichael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com>
Date2014-07-14 21:58 -0600
Message-ID<mailman.11824.1405396693.18130.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#72476
On 06/03/2014 12:12 AM, wxjmfauth@gmail.com wrote:
> I was myself really suprised to fall on such a case and
> after thinking no, such cases may logically happen.

Putting in this comment not for JMF but for poor souls who find this
thread on a search and are led astray by jmf's trolling.

Either it was your code or an issue with the Windows console that caused
the exception.  When you try to print out unicode strings, Python must
convert them to the character encoding of the terminal in order to print
them out.  On sane systems this is UTF-8.  On Windows it could be
anything.  Do you want Python to fail silently or do you want to fail
with a useful message, with the option of specifying the exact behavior
you want (replace unrepresentable characters with spaces, question
marks, etc)?

Seems like jmf, though being a self-proclaimed unicode expert,
continually confusing unicode with encoding schemes.

> 
> It's not important. I'm no more writing Py apps, only
> considering software through an unicode eye.

Please just stop posting to this list.

thanks.

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#74472

Fromwxjmfauth@gmail.com
Date2014-07-15 00:23 -0700
Message-ID<6dec659d-b21a-4154-80a9-cb39fb1b60a9@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#74461
Le mardi 15 juillet 2014 05:58:05 UTC+2, Michael Torrie a écrit :
> On 06/03/2014 12:12 AM, wxjmfauth@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems like jmf, though being a self-proclaimed unicode expert,
> 
> continually confusing unicode with encoding schemes.
> 
> 
> 

Sorry, but no. I have always been very consistent
and attempted to be very concise. Eg. not mixing
Unicode Transformation Unit and byte.

I you wish an example of a confused discussion,
read the pep 393 (?) discussion and you will see
how people are discussing Unicode without being
able to use a unicode terminology.

At least the Py core developper, who wrote
(I do not remember if it was in one of the
lists or a private mail and I do not remember
exactly the phrasing)

"If you are not happy, switch to Py 2.7,
use Ruby or try to convince the BDFL" 

has, in my mind, a little bit more undersanding of
the situation.

jmf

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#74473

FromMark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk>
Date2014-07-15 08:31 +0100
Message-ID<mailman.11831.1405409494.18130.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#72476
On 15/07/2014 04:58, Michael Torrie wrote:
> On 06/03/2014 12:12 AM, wxjmfauth@gmail.com wrote:
>> I was myself really suprised to fall on such a case and
>> after thinking no, such cases may logically happen.
>
> Putting in this comment not for JMF but for poor souls who find this
> thread on a search and are led astray by jmf's trolling.
>
> Either it was your code or an issue with the Windows console that caused
> the exception.  When you try to print out unicode strings, Python must
> convert them to the character encoding of the terminal in order to print
> them out.  On sane systems this is UTF-8.  On Windows it could be
> anything.  Do you want Python to fail silently or do you want to fail
> with a useful message, with the option of specifying the exact behavior
> you want (replace unrepresentable characters with spaces, question
> marks, etc)?

Sorry if I'm repeating myself but this is relevant 
http://bugs.python.org/issue21927 specifically msg222761.

>
> Seems like jmf, though being a self-proclaimed unicode expert,
> continually confusing unicode with encoding schemes.

He's been spouting his bile on this subject on this list for IIRC nearly 
two years.  Still he gets away with it.  Is he sleeping with the right 
people I ask myself?

>
>>
>> It's not important. I'm no more writing Py apps, only
>> considering software through an unicode eye.
>
> Please just stop posting to this list.
>
> thanks.
>

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask 
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

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#74462

FromMichael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com>
Date2014-07-14 21:47 -0600
Message-ID<mailman.11825.1405397542.18130.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#72339
On 05/31/2014 09:48 AM, jmf wrote:
> <falsehoods about python and unicode>

Absolutely FALSE.  Python 3.3 and up can handle any and all unicode
characters you want to throw at it, without surprises such as what you
get in javascript.  Python 3 uses UTF-4 encoding under the hood, with a
compression optimization that removes leading zeros from binary
representation of each character.

Windows command consoles are not unicode compliant, and so running
python programs a command prompt console will often lead to exceptions
because Python must convert unicode to the character set that the
console is using, and when a character is hit that cannot be encoded
Python defaults to being correct and throws an exception, instead of
failing silently.

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#74464

FromChris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>
Date2014-07-15 14:20 +1000
Message-ID<mailman.11826.1405398039.18130.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#72339
On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> wrote:
> Python 3 uses UTF-4 encoding under the hood, with a
> compression optimization that removes leading zeros from binary
> representation of each character.

Sorry to nitpick, but in the interests of terminological accuracy I
have to point out that it's UTF-32 or UCS-4, not UTF-4 :)

But otherwise, yes, quite correct. And a system that few, but not no,
other languages use; I do wonder if other languages have considered
switching to this kind of system, but avoided it lest jmf start
haunting them too...

ChrisA

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#74476

FromFabien <fabien.maussion@gmail.com>
Date2014-07-15 14:17 +0200
Message-ID<lq365f$4c9$1@speranza.aioe.org>
In reply to#74464
My two cents as a new pythonista and a scientist: isn't python2 killing 
python? This old stuff is everywhere in the tutorials, docs, etc. and 
this is quite annoying. When I download a python notebook, the first 
thing I have to do is to translate it to py3. Which is not an easy task, 
given the fact that I am the tutorial *user* and am supposed to learn ;)

Side note: Debian/Ubuntu/Mint announced the total migration to python3, 
which is good but still work in progress:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Python/3

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#74481

FromChris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>
Date2014-07-15 23:00 +1000
Message-ID<mailman.11836.1405429260.18130.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#74476
On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:17 PM, Fabien <fabien.maussion@gmail.com> wrote:
> My two cents as a new pythonista and a scientist: isn't python2 killing
> python?

You're new to Python, and so you correctly want to work with Python 3.
That's fine. That's excellent, in fact. You're starting out the right
way, and avoiding all the problems that Py3 specifically set out to
solve.

However, people-new-to-Python is not the only audience that the
language supports. Everyone who *already has code*, written for (say)
Python 2.5, wants some sort of assurance that it will still be
runnable. It's a matter of trust; python.org implicitly promises that
it's not a waste of time writing code in Python, and that's a promise
that would be broken by cutting off Py2 support.

The problem isn't Python 2, nor Python 3, nor even the fact that there
are two Pythons. The problem is that a lot of people don't understand
when to choose one or the other, don't understand what the promises of
support are, and (perhaps worst of all) keep hearing FUD about how
Python 3 is killing Python. And so the confusion perpetuates.
Eventually the world will get past that, but in the meantime, we have
to deal with these sorts of storms-in-teacups from people who simply
cannot comprehend what's going on.

ChrisA

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#74484

FromKevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com>
Date2014-07-15 09:57 -0400
Message-ID<lq3bvu$ob4$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#74481
On 7/15/14, 9:00 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> The problem isn't Python 2, nor Python 3, nor even the fact that there
> are two Pythons. The problem is that a lot of people don't understand
> when to choose one or the other, don't understand what the promises of
> support are, and (perhaps worst of all) keep hearing FUD about how
> Python 3 is killing Python. And so the confusion perpetuates.
> Eventually the world will get past that, but in the meantime, we have
> to deal with these sorts of storms-in-teacups from people who simply
> cannot comprehend what's going on.

I think it's more than a tempest in a teacup.

The number of language revisions that result in deliberate, code-level 
incompatibility out there is pretty small. People rightly expect that 
code written for version 2.x of a language will continue to work with 
version 3.x, even if 3.x is designed to go in another direction.

I can only think of two widely used languages in the last decade where 
there was this type of major break in binary compatibility: Perl and 
Visual Basic. Perl 6 is kind of a moot point because it's never shipped 
(insert reference to Duke Nukem or GNU HURD here, as appropriate), and 
Perl 5 has not just seen continued development, but invigorated 
development in recent years. But the example of VB is instructive. 
VB.NET is similar, but not identical, to classic VB, and as far as I am 
aware its uptake has not been nearly as wide as classic VB. Microsoft 
was able to force what limited migration we've seen mainly because VB is 
not open source and they can simply drop support for it from Windows.

I've stayed with Python 2.7 because I've seen no benefit in 3.x that 
outweighs the hassle of going through my code line by line to make it 
compatible. As a Mac developer I deal with this kind of code/API churn 
with each release of Mac OS X, and I have no desire to increase my 
headaches.

Though I expect I will eventually update to 3.x, however, like many 
other developers I am also annoyed by the decision to break backwards 
compatibility in Python. The decision strikes me as arrogant. Cruft and 
backwards compatibility are an inevitable part of any mature programming 
language, and maintaining compatibility is important--more important 
than bolting on shiny new features, in my view. If shiny new features 
must be added, they should be added side-by-side with older API's.

I think the Python developers have undervalued the conservator part of 
their role. Yes, they have provided tools to help application and 
library developers migrate their code, but it should not be incumbent on 
third-party developers to re-architect stable, working code simply 
because the language has broken binary compatibility. Defenders of the 
3.x migration portray such developers as laggards, but I see Python 
3.x's failure to silently and successfully import 2.x code as a failure 
on the language's end.

I won't go so far as to say that Python 3 is killing Python. Python will 
survive. But the headaches of migration are substantial, and should not 
be necessary.

--Kevin

-- 
Kevin Walzer
Code by Kevin/Mobile Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com
http://www.wtmobilesoftware.com

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#74486

FromChris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>
Date2014-07-16 00:31 +1000
Message-ID<mailman.11838.1405434699.18130.python-list@python.org>
In reply to#74484
On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 11:57 PM, Kevin Walzer <kw@codebykevin.com> wrote:
> The number of language revisions that result in deliberate, code-level
> incompatibility out there is pretty small. People rightly expect that code
> written for version 2.x of a language will continue to work with version
> 3.x, even if 3.x is designed to go in another direction.

That's not strictly true. I would generally expect some concept of
version numbering along the lines of semver.org's recommendations, or
the Debian packaging guidelines (I think), or, or, or, or, or. You
know the sort of thing: major.minor.revision, where "revision" changes
shouldn't break anything unless you were, perhaps unwittingly,
depending on a bug; "minor" changes add features, and might break code
that was, say, using a new language keyword as an identifier (eg you
can use "with" as a function name in Python 2.4, but in Python 2.6
that won't work); and "major" changes can cause backward
incompatibility. That's not absolutely strictly true of all Python
versions, but it's certainly very close.

You would expect Python version 3.x to be broadly the same language as
Python 2.x, but you cannot expect code to automatically run
unmodified. That's the whole point of a major version number change.
And that's exactly what we see; the similarities between Python 2.7
and 3.4 are pretty huge compared to the differences. They are
definitely the same language.

> I can only think of two widely used languages in the last decade where there
> was this type of major break in binary compatibility: Perl and Visual Basic.

ANSI C broke quite a bit compared to previous C implementations.
Doesn't have quite a "version number", but it's the same concept.
Object REXX (OREXX) breaks several things in Classic REXX (REXX). Both
of those precede "the last decade", but I'd say the same thing
applies: if the name or major version number changes, you can expect
differences.

(For this reason, I have never actually released a RosMud version 2.0;
once I went stable with 1.0, I never needed to make
backward-incompatible changes. The latest - and probably last -
version is 1.7.0, and the project has been succeeded by Gypsum, which
is a brand new project... new name, incompatible APIs.)

> I've stayed with Python 2.7 because I've seen no benefit in 3.x that
> outweighs the hassle of going through my code line by line to make it
> compatible.

And that's fine! The python-dev team has promised that 2.7 will
continue to be supported; that means some headaches, especially on
Windows (the Python 2.7 support will long outlast upstream Microsoft
support for the compiler it's built on), but it's a promise that you
can continue to run your 2.7 code.

That said, though, I would advise you to give 2to3 a shot. You never
know, it might do exactly what you need right out-of-the-box and give
you a 3.x-compatible codebase in one hit.

> Though I expect I will eventually update to 3.x, however, like many other
> developers I am also annoyed by the decision to break backwards
> compatibility in Python. The decision strikes me as arrogant. Cruft and
> backwards compatibility are an inevitable part of any mature programming
> language, and maintaining compatibility is important--more important than
> bolting on shiny new features, in my view. If shiny new features must be
> added, they should be added side-by-side with older API's.

Big problem with that: it means that everyone who learns the language
has to wrestle with *both* APIs. It's impossible to fix bugs. So how
about this as a compromise: We'll have this special flag at the top of
the program that says whether it should be in "compatibility mode" or
"shiny new features mode". And hey, let's write it like this:

#!/usr/local/bin/python2
# This program runs in compatibility mode.

#!/usr/local/bin/python3
# This program gets all the new features.

Python *is* maintaining backward compatibility. It's fundamentally not
possible to add some of Python 3's features without some pretty big
changes (look at, for instance, the str/bytes changes - essential to
proper i18n, but impossible to do to a Py2-compatible interpreter), so
the only way to do it is to continue to support Py2 while doing new
development on Py3.

> I think the Python developers have undervalued the conservator part of their
> role.

No, they haven't. That's exactly why Python 2.7 is to be supported for
so long (2020 according to current plans), and why PEP 466 and such
are so important. There's a lot of Python 2 code out there, and
python-dev's taking the responsibility very seriously.

> ... I see Python 3.x's failure to silently and
> successfully import 2.x code as a failure on the language's end.

Fine. Tell me how you would go about adding true Unicode support to
Python 2.7, while still having it able to import an unchanged program.
Trick question - it's fundamentally impossible, because an unchanged
program will not distinguish between bytes and text, but true Unicode
support requires that they be distinguished. The best you could do
would be to rewrite your code into some kind of hybrid, which would
then be able to run on both versions; there are ways of doing this,
but if you're going to rewrite your code, you may as well go straight
to Py3 and take advantage of its features.

Ultimately, the solution is simply to keep Python 2.7 around for a
good long time, until the carrot of new Py3 features becomes
attractive enough for it to be worth switching. And if that's not
before 2020, no problem. Even if it's after 2020, there's a fair
chance that you'll still be able to run your 2.7 code - it's just that
there's no promise (at the moment) of patches, even security patches,
from python.org. If you're running RHEL, you might get full support
for several more years after 2020. That's a pretty long time, when you
consider that Python 3.1 came out in 2009.

ChrisA

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